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May 31 2018 07:45pm
Quote (fender @ May 31 2018 06:42pm)
i already debunked the idiotic 'not a level playing field' / 'not fair trade', and 'car tariffs' talking points multiple times. here are the main points as a reminder:

- over 50% of our trade is completely tariff free.
- the average customs duty is under 2%
- our car tariffs are 10% (except you want to go back to acting like the VAT only applies to imported cars), yours are just 2.5%. however, on trucks (the most popular cars in the US) and vans your tariffs are 25%.
- US tariffs on train carriages is 14%, EU just 1.7%, US duty on peanuts is 130%, on raw tobacco 350%

so stop acting like america is taken advantage of by the EU, it's overall a very balanced trade relationship that will be significantly impacted by randomly slapping on tariffs for whole industries.
facts don't care about your false narratives, so please come up with an ACTUAL argument how this is good for american consumers and workers, or admit that it's a shortsighted political decision by trump to look like a strong leader in the eyes of a significant portion of his base in the very industries he's targeting.


It's like you're intellectually challenged and don't understand the scale of certain industries far exceeds others. The car market in the US is a behemoth. Train carriages, peanuts, and tobacco...like really?

Inform thyself

Quote
In 2016, the EU exported motor vehicles worth EUR 192.0 billion. Imports in that same year amounted to 40 % of that value (EUR 77.0 billion), giving an EU trade surplus of EUR 128.2 billion.

The value of extra-EU exports of motor vehicles increased by an average of 2 % per year between 2013 and 2016. During the same period, extra-EU imports grew at a much faster pace, at an average 14 % per year.

In 2016, the United States remained the main destination of EU's motor vehicles exports (25 % of the total), well ahead of China (16 %). Together with Turkey (7 %), Switzerland and Japan (both 5 %) they accounted for more than half of the EU external market.

Over half of all extra-EU motor vehicles imports in 2016 came from Turkey (20 %), Japan (19 %) and the United States (14 %).

Within the motor vehicles category (which includes lorries, road tractors, motorcycles, trailers and motor-vehicle parts), motor cars represented 65 % of extra-EU exports and 50 % of extra-EU imports in 2016. Parts and accessories of motor vehicles had a share of 22 % and 27 % respectively.


Now it's totally possible that the 25% exports to US compared to 14% exports to EU is a result of German cars possibly being more desirable in EU as well as US but i sure as hell think the tariff has much more to do with it.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on May 31 2018 07:58pm
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May 31 2018 08:03pm
Quote (fender @ May 31 2018 07:42pm)
however, on trucks (the most popular cars in the US) and vans your tariffs are 25%.


the chicken tax can't be compared to other tariffs as if it was paid at the full 25% value, because all the manufacturers just circumvent it by various means like disassembling/reassembling parts or stripping seats out of imported 'passenger vehicles' to turn them into 'light trucks'. Thereby making the effective rate of the tariff much lower in impact. If you krauts don't like it, you shouldn't have put tariffs on our chickens to provoke it.
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May 31 2018 08:27pm
Quote (ChrisKz @ Jun 1 2018 03:31am)
why didn't that become a huge thing?


not the narrative the anti-Trump-propaganda mainstream media outlets are looking for
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May 31 2018 08:36pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ 1 Jun 2018 02:45)
It's like you're intellectually challenged and don't understand the scale of certain industries far exceeds others. The car market in the US is a behemoth. Train carriages, peanuts, and tobacco...like really?

Inform thyself



Now it's totally possible that the 25% exports to US compared to 14% exports to EU is a result of German cars possibly being more desirable in EU as well as US but i sure as hell think the tariff has much more to do with it.


it's like you're intellectually challenged and can't find a real argument so you keep repeating the debunked one over and over - conveniently ignoring the part about the massive 25% tariff on trucks and vans, some of the most popular cars in america, of course.

again, there was no trade war before this. sure, both sides were unhappy with some of the tariffs, while trying to protect their own vital industries.
however, overall the trade relations were relatively balanced and average tariffs were extremely low.

the notion that slapping on a massive tariff for whole industries is merely a measure trying to 'fight back' against 'unfair trade' comes from a completely messed up and ignorant interpretation of trade deficits, that you seem to share with your emperor. no matter how often you repeat this uninformed talking point, the EU was not 'taking advantage' of america.

this escalation WILL hurt consumers, industries, and workers on BOTH sides. completely unnecessarily though, this strong man act is just meat for trump's base and appeals to gullible minds who just don't understand international trade...
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May 31 2018 08:55pm
Quote (Goomshill @ 1 Jun 2018 03:03)
the chicken tax can't be compared to other tariffs as if it was paid at the full 25% value, because all the manufacturers just circumvent it by various means like disassembling/reassembling parts or stripping seats out of imported 'passenger vehicles' to turn them into 'light trucks'. Thereby making the effective rate of the tariff much lower in impact. If you krauts don't like it, you shouldn't have put tariffs on our chickens to provoke it.


oh really? tell me, which european built TRUCKS circumvent the tax that way, which european built trucks do you commonly see on american roads? i bet the closest thing you can come up with to justify your outrageous claim is what mercedes did with their 'sprinter' VAN in the early 2000s. no, the american truck market is effectively monopolised due to that massive tariff (and it show considering the 'quality' of them, but that's just a sidenote).

seriously, you might want to read up on that shit before you expose your lack of knowledge like that.

This post was edited by fender on May 31 2018 08:57pm
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May 31 2018 09:06pm
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May 31 2018 09:08pm
Quote (fender @ May 31 2018 08:55pm)
oh really? tell me, which european built TRUCKS circumvent the tax that way, which european built trucks do you commonly see on american roads? i bet the closest thing you can come up with to justify your outrageous claim is what mercedes did with their 'sprinter' VAN in the early 2000s. no, the american truck market is effectively monopolised due to that massive tariff (and it show considering the 'quality' of them, but that's just a sidenote).


Chevys and Subarus made in Japan from 1963 to 1980, Toyotas, Suzuki and Honda all still use assembly plant loopholes, Mercedes and Dodges made in Germany, Ford and Chrysler vans made in Turkey
just to name a few

Quote
seriously, you might want to read up on that shit before you expose your lack of knowledge like that.


fenderp/10
ice/10
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May 31 2018 09:10pm
Quote (fender @ May 31 2018 07:36pm)
it's like you're intellectually challenged and can't find a real argument so you keep repeating the debunked one over and over - conveniently ignoring the part about the massive 25% tariff on trucks and vans, some of the most popular cars in america, of course.

again, there was no trade war before this. sure, both sides were unhappy with some of the tariffs, while trying to protect their own vital industries.
however, overall the trade relations were relatively balanced and average tariffs were extremely low.

the notion that slapping on a massive tariff for whole industries is merely a measure trying to 'fight back' against 'unfair trade' comes from a completely messed up and ignorant interpretation of trade deficits, that you seem to share with your emperor. no matter how often you repeat this uninformed talking point, the EU was not 'taking advantage' of america.

this escalation WILL hurt consumers, industries, and workers on BOTH sides. completely unnecessarily though, this strong man act is just meat for trump's base and appeals to gullible minds who just don't understand international trade...


Trucks represent 18% of total vehicle sales in the US. They are not the most popular vehicle, you repeating dumb shit that's inaccurate then try to make an argument based on some non truth is precisely why people don't take you seriously on here.

Quote (excellence @ May 31 2018 08:12pm)
lmfao slammed like dresden ‘45


Reference top kek

This post was edited by ofthevoid on May 31 2018 09:13pm
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May 31 2018 09:12pm
Quote (Goomshill @ 31 May 2018 23:08)
Chevys and Subarus made in Japan from 1963 to 1980, Toyotas, Suzuki and Honda all still use assembly plant loopholes, Mercedes and Dodges made in Germany, Ford and Chrysler vans made in Turkey
just to name a few



fenderp/10
ice/10

lmfao slammed like dresden ‘45
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May 31 2018 09:15pm
Quote (excellence @ May 31 2018 09:12pm)
lmfao slammed like dresden ‘45


If I gave Fender a few hours on google before he comes back, do you think he could figure out what the competing interests are between the US's willingness to keep the largely defunct chicken tax as a bargaining chip in a trade war like this one, versus the lobbying from South Carolinans who love their assembly plant jobs that exist solely to circumvent a tariff?

This post was edited by Goomshill on May 31 2018 09:15pm
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