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May 24 2018 07:40am
Same people writing insanities

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environment_and_intelligence

- IQ and educational attainment are strongly correlated
- Environmental enrichment affects cognition and intellectual development from a neurobiological perspective


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May 24 2018 07:41am
Quote (thesnipa @ May 24 2018 09:29am)
i don't understand the contention with IQ tests unless you overvalue IQ as some objective measure of intelligence in all facets. IQ tests a specific set of traits that are preferable for many walks of life. EQ has already proven more advantageous in many job setting situations, and the world is increasingly going that way. but i don't understand the contention, unless its from an SJW perspective. Black people weren't given the tool of math and science education, by-and-large, until 100 or so years after many of their white counterparts. of course a test for math and science type thinking will show they lag behind. if someone draws conclusions that blacks are less deserving of jobs that's potentially problematic. are they a math/science field that would validate that? even in math/science fields can EQ make up for a lower IQ? where do blacks score in EQ compared to whites? how much less important is IQ in an era of instant answers via google, a little? a lot?

I don't think blacks should be hired less based on IQ scores generally of blacks. But if a math/science field has a test for employment that essentially mirrors the IQ test because their field is highly applicable is it racism at play if we have less black people hired compared to their population%? I think there's a legitimate argument for the IQ test being outdated for most fields, because internet.


That doesnt explain why companies are banned from using the IQ test. The fact is that they prefer IQ tests but they are not allowed to
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May 24 2018 07:44am
Quote (EndlessSky @ May 24 2018 07:41am)
That doesnt explain why companies are banned from using the IQ test. The fact is that they prefer IQ tests but they are not allowed to


Thing is, you can find somebody capable of doing a job by using IQ as a test, but you can't measure other things like willingness to stay with the company, willingness to actually do the job, or willingness to work as a team.

There are lots of factors that IQ tests don't measure that are important for employment. Personally I'd never hire a person with an IQ above 110 for a boring job like pizza delivery driver. They'd get bored and leave.





Anyway, I could have a nuanced discussion with somebody on IQ who is willing to have it, but I'm not convinced either of the Trump supporters in this thread are actually willing to have it, as evidenced by Goom's unwillingness to consider any information that isn't in his 25 year old report.
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May 24 2018 07:46am
Quote (EndlessSky @ May 24 2018 07:41am)
That doesnt explain why companies are banned from using the IQ test. The fact is that they prefer IQ tests but they are not allowed to


i'm sure there is some fuckery at play. but if IQ tests aren't as effective as companies think they are in determining who the best candidate will be for job performance then i'm not concerned. EQ tests are faulty and not that effective in determining EQ due to testing biases, but EQ is a thing and appears to be more important than IQ. I'd rather companies get better candidates, so IQ testing out the socially talented people for those who are good at match isn't to my liking. As i said tho, if IQ his highly applicable to their field and EQ isn't test away. IQ testing may be banned but any company can make a competency exam part of their hiring process, which can be as simple as a copy pasta IQ test. if need be to avoid litigation they can sprinkle in a few feel good EQ question.

This post was edited by thesnipa on May 24 2018 07:47am
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May 24 2018 07:51am
Quote (Thor123422 @ May 24 2018 07:29am)
The reconstructed data aren't as direct of temperature measurements as modern satellite data. They are based on other factors that typically correlate with CO2 level, or some other factor, that can then be related back to temperature. As such there are greater complicating factors and more artifacts than modern satellite data. A lot of the historical data is also interpreted using the relationships constructed from modern temperature data derived from satellite measurements.


Oh man, you're telling me that historical data isn't as direct a measurement as direct measurements we take today!
Next thing we know, you'll be explaining to me why hotter temperatures mean more drought at the equator.

Quote (thesnipa @ May 24 2018 07:29am)
i don't understand the contention with IQ tests unless you overvalue IQ as some objective measure of intelligence in all facets. IQ tests a specific set of traits that are preferable for many walks of life. EQ has already proven more advantageous in many job setting situations, and the world is increasingly going that way. but i don't understand the contention, unless its from an SJW perspective. Black people weren't given the tool of math and science education, by-and-large, until 100 or so years after many of their white counterparts. of course a test for math and science type thinking will show they lag behind. if someone draws conclusions that blacks are less deserving of jobs that's potentially problematic. are they a math/science field that would validate that? even in math/science fields can EQ make up for a lower IQ? where do blacks score in EQ compared to whites? how much less important is IQ in an era of instant answers via google, a little? a lot?

I don't think blacks should be hired less based on IQ scores generally of blacks. But if a math/science field has a test for employment that essentially mirrors the IQ test because their field is highly applicable is it racism at play if we have less black people hired compared to their population%? I think there's a legitimate argument for the IQ test being outdated for most fields, because internet.


Most IQ tests eschew math/sciences to look for more generalized pattern recognition, observation and learning characteristics. There's no one definition, but its definitely a measure of ration thinking. What's particularly notable is the disparity between early childhood / young adulthood in testing, where children are generally born and raised the same but then diverge closer to maturity. Now you can draw whatever conclusions you want from that, but I don't think it can be said to be exclusive in application to the maths and sciences. The predictive power of IQ in success goes beyond any categorization of discipline.

But the difference between 'excluding people in discriminatory fashion based on ignorant perceptions of race' and 'people being excluded disproportionately in non-discriminatory fashion because of underlying disproportionate demographics'?
That goes right to the heart of the diversity quota debate. The problem is that by a combination of political correctness, science denial and groupthink, some people have deluded themselves into believe their ignorant and discriminatory policies are actually well founded, and look to quack sociology to support it. And its just as wrong when its intersectionality justifying diversity quotas as it was when it was phrenology justifying segregation.
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May 24 2018 07:52am
Quote (Goomshill @ May 24 2018 07:51am)
Oh man, you're telling me that historical data isn't as direct a measurement as direct measurements we take today!
Next thing we know, you'll be explaining to me why hotter temperatures mean more drought at the equator./QUOTE]



Yawn.

Ignore the inconvenient complicating factors, reduce it to a one line blurb. That's pretty much conservative 101. Also why you were duped into voting Trump.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on May 24 2018 07:53am
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May 24 2018 07:53am
Quote (Thor123422 @ May 24 2018 07:52am)
Yawn.

Ignore the inconvenient complicating factors, reduce it to a one line blurb. That's pretty much conservative 101. Also why you were duped into voting Trump.


>doesn't know anything about a subject
>holds strong opinions on it
That's pretty much liberalism 101
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May 24 2018 07:53am
A general metric like an IQ test for a highly skilled/highly specialized job is nonsensical to me. If i'm an employer and i want to measure the intelligence or knowledge i will do so depending on the skills i'm looking for. If i'm hiring a coder i'm going to give him some coding test. If i'm hiring an accountant i'm going to test him on knowledge of software like quick books and how he handles various degrees of difficulty. I think this is the best gage for employers not IQ tests.

Last i took one i got a 110 on it and i thought some questions were really strange. There is correlation between IQ and income but i'd still stick with my job specific examinations over IQ.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on May 24 2018 07:54am
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May 24 2018 07:57am
Quote (Goomshill @ May 24 2018 07:53am)
>doesn't know anything about a subject
>holds strong opinions on it
That's pretty much liberalism 101


>doesn't know anything about a subject
>thinks he knows everything about the subject
>tells people who are actually well informed on the subject they don't know anything

yep
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May 24 2018 08:00am
Quote (Goomshill @ May 24 2018 07:51am)
Oh man, you're telling me that historical data isn't as direct a measurement as direct measurements we take today!
Next thing we know, you'll be explaining to me why hotter temperatures mean more drought at the equator.



Most IQ tests eschew math/sciences to look for more generalized pattern recognition, observation and learning characteristics. There's no one definition, but its definitely a measure of ration thinking. What's particularly notable is the disparity between early childhood / young adulthood in testing, where children are generally born and raised the same but then diverge closer to maturity. Now you can draw whatever conclusions you want from that, but I don't think it can be said to be exclusive in application to the maths and sciences. The predictive power of IQ in success goes beyond any categorization of discipline.

But the difference between 'excluding people in discriminatory fashion based on ignorant perceptions of race' and 'people being excluded disproportionately in non-discriminatory fashion because of underlying disproportionate demographics'?
That goes right to the heart of the diversity quota debate. The problem is that by a combination of political correctness, science denial and groupthink, some people have deluded themselves into believe their ignorant and discriminatory policies are actually well founded, and look to quack sociology to support it. And its just as wrong when its intersectionality justifying diversity quotas as it was when it was phrenology justifying segregation.


that's not what i'm saying.

what i'm saying is there are EQ driven fields, IQ/EQ mixed fields, and IQ driven fields. math/science related fields where much of the work is solitary is largely IQ driven. and the mitigating factors EQ provides on the importance of IQ for job performance are largely moot. Who cares if the weirdo that codes well is awkward at the coffee pot or chirstmas party? Now if he's in a more social field IQ matters less, communication is a large part of even many fields people think as IQ driven. My field is a good example, what does IQ matter in drafting, right? Well we all rely on the observations of each other to draft correctly, we have a brilliant guy who's terrible at communicating and his job performance suffers because no one watches his back. less talented drafters outperform him in terms of mistakes.

then there's EQ driven fields like social work where IQ matters far less, hardly at all. problem solving there is largely a result of experience, and EQ identification of personality types based on those personal experiences.

what i'm saying overall is there are few, but some, fields where IQ invalidates the importance of EQ. which overall is far more important for job performance. just about everywhere. IQ simply isn't important, most people are bundled in a range that can perform in most jobs just fine. and those that are outliers above and below are largely apparent in interviews, invalidating the need for testing.
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