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Oct 2 2019 01:49pm
Quote (Santara @ Oct 2 2019 12:43pm)
It's like no one can fucking read.

https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=81896130&f=119&o=164

Subject: a citizen or member of a state other than its supreme ruler.



Correct. You are the one who cannot read.
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Oct 2 2019 02:58pm
Quote (Santara @ Oct 2 2019 02:43pm)
It's like no one can fucking read.

https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=81896130&f=119&o=164

Subject: a citizen or member of a state other than its supreme ruler.


It's like you can't understand that using that definition in this context doesn't make sense.
Here's two possible definitions, one for "subject" and the other for "subject to"

"Subject to the jurisdiction thereof"
--> "a citizen or member of the state to the jurisdiction thereof" (nonsensical sentence)
--> "affected by or possibly affected by the jurisdiction thereof" (sensible sentence)

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Oct 2 2019 02:59pm
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Oct 2 2019 04:07pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ 2 Oct 2019 16:58)
It's like you can't understand that using that definition in this context doesn't make sense.
Here's two possible definitions, one for "subject" and the other for "subject to"

"Subject to the jurisdiction thereof"
--> "a citizen or member of the state to the jurisdiction thereof" (nonsensical sentence)
--> "affected by or possibly affected by the jurisdiction thereof" (sensible sentence)



hilarious when someone who doesn’t recognize the legitimacy of law of the land attempts to interpret it when they cannot even win arguments against flat-earther

stick to licking petri-dishes

This post was edited by excellence on Oct 2 2019 04:09pm
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Oct 2 2019 04:08pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Oct 2 2019 03:58pm)
It's like you can't understand that using that definition in this context doesn't make sense.
Here's two possible definitions, one for "subject" and the other for "subject to"

"Subject to the jurisdiction thereof"
--> "a citizen or member of the state to the jurisdiction thereof" (nonsensical sentence)
--> "affected by or possibly affected by the jurisdiction thereof" (sensible sentence)


"All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

--> All persons born or naturalized in the United States and a citizen or member of the state thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

As opposed to people who are born in the United States who are citizens of another state/jurisdiction by virtue of their parents' citizenship.

Like if you were to travel to Australia with your wife and she gave birth there, your child would still be considered Canadian.
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Oct 2 2019 04:10pm
Quote (Santara @ Oct 2 2019 05:08pm)
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

--> All persons born or naturalized in the United States and a citizen or member of the state thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

As opposed to people who are born in the United States who are citizens of another state/jurisdiction by virtue of their parents' citizenship.

Like if you were to travel to Australia with your wife and she gave birth there, your child would still be considered Canadian.


You removed extra words to shoehorn in your definition. You can fit any definition when youre allowed to remove words
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Oct 2 2019 04:18pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Oct 2 2019 05:10pm)
You removed extra words to shoehorn in your definition. You can fit any definition when youre allowed to remove words


You omitted and and added words.
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Oct 2 2019 04:23pm
Quote (Santara @ Oct 2 2019 05:18pm)
You omitted and and added words.


I did it to your definition of "subject" to make it more favorable. If I include all the words it only gets worse for your position.

It's plainly obvious that "subject to" in context means something akin to "under the influence of". It's obvious from the context.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Oct 2 2019 04:23pm
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Oct 2 2019 04:47pm
Quote (Santara @ Oct 2 2019 06:08pm)
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

--> All persons born or naturalized in the United States and a citizen or member of the state thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

As opposed to people who are born in the United States who are citizens of another state/jurisdiction by virtue of their parents' citizenship.

Like if you were to travel to Australia with your wife and she gave birth there, your child would still be considered Canadian.


This sentence says the same thing twice. If you are a citizen you are a citizen. Tautologies are tautologies.

Why would it say if you are already a citizen, you are a citizen? What's the point of that? That is how you know it is wrong.

You're doing so much interpretation you are ignoring the words.

More on the subject:

Quote
https://www.oyez.org/cases/1981/80-1538

Plyler v. Doe

Facts of the case
A revision to the Texas education laws in 1975 allowed the state to withhold from local school districts state funds for educating children of illegal aliens. This case was decided together with Texas v. Certain Named and Unnamed Alien Child.

Question
Did the law violate the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment?

Conclusion

Yes. The Court reasoned that illegal aliens and their children, though not citizens of the United States or Texas, are people "in any ordinary sense of the term" and, therefore, are afforded Fourteenth Amendment protections. Since the state law severely disadvantaged the children of illegal aliens, by denying them the right to an education, and because Texas could not prove that the regulation was needed to serve a "compelling state interest," the Court struck down the law.


Quote
The illegal aliens who are plaintiffs in these cases challenging the statute may claim the benefit of the Equal Protection Clause, which provides that no State shall "deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." Whatever his status under the immigration laws, an alien is a "person" in any ordinary sense of that term. This Court's prior cases recognizing that illegal aliens are "persons" protected by the Due Process Clauses of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments, which Clauses do not include the phrase "within its jurisdiction," cannot be distinguished on the asserted ground that persons who have entered the country illegally are not "within the jurisdiction" of a State even if they are present within its boundaries and subject to its laws. Nor do the logic and history of the Fourteenth Amendment support such a construction. Instead, use of the phrase "within its jurisdiction" confirms the understanding that the Fourteenth Amendment's protection extends to anyone, citizen or stranger, who is subject to the laws of a State, and reaches into every corner of a State's territory.


Looking for precedents, legal or historical, supporting Santara's argument. Seen on on Heritage Foundation but it isn't very objective.

This post was edited by Skinned on Oct 2 2019 05:06pm
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Oct 2 2019 06:53pm
If Democrats had their way, birds would have birthright citizenship.
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Oct 4 2019 04:31am
Quote (Skinned @ Oct 2 2019 05:47pm)
This sentence says the same thing twice. If you are a citizen you are a citizen. Tautologies are tautologies.

Why would it say if you are already a citizen, you are a citizen? What's the point of that? That is how you know it is wrong.

You're doing so much interpretation you are ignoring the words.

More on the subject:

Looking for precedents, legal or historical, supporting Santara's argument. Seen on on Heritage Foundation but it isn't very objective.


Because what it really says is you are a citizen if you are born here AND you are not a citizen/member of somewhere else. It's really not a tautology so much as different grammatical style.

Lol, Heritage isn't "objective" because it doesn't see it like you do? They say the same thing I have, just more eloquently.

https://www.heritage.org/immigration/commentary/birthright-citizenship-fundamental-misunderstanding-the-14th-amendment
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