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Mar 24 2019 08:36pm
Quote (Sopranos @ Mar 24 2019 09:19pm)
Manafort, stone or flynn didnt commit any crimes? Am i understanding you correctly in your assertion that prior to this investigation, these men were wholeheartedly innocent and clean of any criminal acts?

Or are you saying that strictly in connection with trumps campaign, there werent any crimes committed by these men, regardless of other private endeavors?


The investigation was whether there was coordination and/or collusion between members of Trump's staff and/or the president himself with the Russian government. That the investigation uncovered unrelated crimes for one, and created criminals out of the others for how they reacted to the investigation is the basis for my post.
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Mar 24 2019 08:55pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Mar 24 2019 07:47pm)


Quote
Yes, Mueller's careful language on the question of obstruction of justice means that the fires of partisanship will continue to burn strongly. And yes, Democrats have a legitimate constitutional and political interest in assessing the details of Mueller's findings. But, apologies would do the nation good here on what must be considered a good day. Perhaps those apologies might even offer us a chance for a kinder national discourse!


I agree

it ain't gonna happen and it's not just because of Trump. He doesn't apologize for shit but can't criticize Trump for not doing something and excuse the same sort of toxic discourse on the other side where the extreme speculators will also not show any remorse or offer any olive branches

both sides have the opportunity to lead on the issue and both will fail to do so

I agree with the bold it was a good day, a great day for the country
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Mar 24 2019 09:03pm
if I was pulling the puppet strings on Trump, I'd say that after the rest of the report drops, he apologizes to Mueller and pardons Flynn and then gives a huge speech on the white house lawn declaring victory over ISIS that ignores all russiaburger stuff
but lets be real that ain't gonna happen
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Mar 24 2019 09:05pm
Quote (excellence @ Mar 24 2019 06:51pm)


also they changed their tack: they un-deleted an old thread silently about 20 minutes ago, leaving only 3 hour old comments. gimping the discussion
gotta give them a bravo on that, they couldn't have taken a better approach to quashing inconvenient news, that's more subversive than just censoring it all
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Mar 24 2019 09:06pm
Quote (inkanddagger @ Mar 24 2019 08:27pm)
They recovered from pushing the war on Iraq, a much larger boondoggle.


I like to think of it like East Asia vs Eurasia. Fox News will eventually switch views. CNN will eventually switch views. Same with all the others. Remember guys, these are for profit media channels. If Fox News could make more money catering to young liberals they would. If CNN could make more money catering to older conservatives they would. These channels won't recover because there isn't anything to recover from. They'll keep pushing stories out there like they already do 24/7, 365.
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Mar 24 2019 09:18pm
https://oversight.house.gov/news/press-releases/joint-statement-of-judiciary-chair-nadler-intelligence-chair-schiff-and

Joint Statement of Judiciary Chair Nadler, Intelligence Chair Schiff and Oversight Chair Cummings
Mar 24, 2019 Press Release

Washington, D.C. (Mar. 24, 2019)—Today, House Judiciary Chairman Jerrold Nadler (D-NY), Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence Chairman Adam B. Schiff (D-CA), and Committee on Oversight and Reform Chairman Elijah E. Cummings (D-MD) released the following joint statement in response to Attorney General William Barr’s letter sharing the principle conclusions in Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s final report:

"After reading the Attorney General’s four-page summary of the Special Counsel’s findings, we reiterate our call for the release of the Special Counsel’s full and complete report and all underlying documents. We also call for Attorney General Barr to come forward to testify before the House Judiciary Committee without delay. Far from the ‘total exoneration’ claimed by the President, the Mueller report expressly does not exonerate the President. Instead, it ‘sets out evidence on both sides of the question’ of obstruction—including the evidence that President Trump attempted to obstruct justice.

"It is unacceptable that, after Special Counsel Mueller spent 22 months meticulously uncovering this evidence, Attorney General Barr made a decision not to charge the President in under 48 hours. The Attorney General did so without even interviewing the President. His unsolicited, open memorandum to the Department of Justice, suggesting that the obstruction investigation was ‘fatally misconceived,’ calls into question his objectivity on this point in particular.

"Attorney General Barr states that the Special Counsel did not find evidence sufficient to establish beyond a reasonable doubt, for purposes of prosecution, that the Trump campaign conspired to join Russia’s election-related online disinformation and hacking and dissemination efforts, notwithstanding multiple offers from Russian-affiliated parties to assist the Trump campaign.

"Although we have confidence that Special Counsel Mueller made the right prosecutorial judgement in these two specific areas—notwithstanding the very public evidence of Trump campaign contact with and willingness to receive support from Russian agents—it will be vital for the country and the Congress to evaluate the full body of evidence collected by the Special Counsel, including all information gathered of a counterintelligence nature.

"The only information the Congress and the American people have received regarding this investigation is the Attorney General’s own work product. The Special Counsel’s Report should be allowed to speak for itself, and Congress must have the opportunity to evaluate the underlying evidence.

"These shortcomings in today’s letter are the very reason our nation has a system of separation of powers. We cannot simply rely on what may be a partisan interpretation of facts uncovered during the course of a 22-month review of possible wrongdoing by the President.

"The American people deserve to see the facts and judge the President’s actions for themselves.

"Earlier this month, the House passed a resolution calling for the release of the Special Counsel’s report by a vote of 420-0. The Attorney General must release the report and the underlying evidence in full, and appear before the House Judiciary Committee to answer our questions without delay."
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Mar 24 2019 09:23pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Mar 24 2019 10:18pm)
https://oversight.house.gov/news/press-releases/joint-statement-of-judiciary-chair-nadler-intelligence-chair-schiff-and

Joint Statement of Judiciary Chair Nadler, Intelligence Chair Schiff and Oversight Chair Cummings
Mar 24, 2019 Press Release

Washington, D.C. (Mar. 24, 2019)—Today, House Judiciary Chairman Jerrold Nadler (D-NY), Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence Chairman Adam B. Schiff (D-CA), and Committee on Oversight and Reform Chairman Elijah E. Cummings (D-MD) released the following joint statement in response to Attorney General William Barr’s letter sharing the principle conclusions in Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s final report:

"After reading the Attorney General’s four-page summary of the Special Counsel’s findings, we reiterate our call for the release of the Special Counsel’s full and complete report and all underlying documents. We also call for Attorney General Barr to come forward to testify before the House Judiciary Committee without delay. Far from the ‘total exoneration’ claimed by the President, the Mueller report expressly does not exonerate the President. Instead, it ‘sets out evidence on both sides of the question’ of obstruction—including the evidence that President Trump attempted to obstruct justice.

"It is unacceptable that, after Special Counsel Mueller spent 22 months meticulously uncovering this evidence, Attorney General Barr made a decision not to charge the President in under 48 hours. The Attorney General did so without even interviewing the President. His unsolicited, open memorandum to the Department of Justice, suggesting that the obstruction investigation was ‘fatally misconceived,’ calls into question his objectivity on this point in particular.

"Attorney General Barr states that the Special Counsel did not find evidence sufficient to establish beyond a reasonable doubt, for purposes of prosecution, that the Trump campaign conspired to join Russia’s election-related online disinformation and hacking and dissemination efforts, notwithstanding multiple offers from Russian-affiliated parties to assist the Trump campaign.

"Although we have confidence that Special Counsel Mueller made the right prosecutorial judgement in these two specific areas—notwithstanding the very public evidence of Trump campaign contact with and willingness to receive support from Russian agents—it will be vital for the country and the Congress to evaluate the full body of evidence collected by the Special Counsel, including all information gathered of a counterintelligence nature.

"The only information the Congress and the American people have received regarding this investigation is the Attorney General’s own work product. The Special Counsel’s Report should be allowed to speak for itself, and Congress must have the opportunity to evaluate the underlying evidence.

"These shortcomings in today’s letter are the very reason our nation has a system of separation of powers. We cannot simply rely on what may be a partisan interpretation of facts uncovered during the course of a 22-month review of possible wrongdoing by the President.

"The American people deserve to see the facts and judge the President’s actions for themselves.

"Earlier this month, the House passed a resolution calling for the release of the Special Counsel’s report by a vote of 420-0. The Attorney General must release the report and the underlying evidence in full, and appear before the House Judiciary Committee to answer our questions without delay."


Notice the bolded part... they substituted collusion for obstruction. Interesting, but not surprising.



/e Here from the OP is what they are claiming was said in the bolded part...










... clearly, there was nothing found about the collusion. All the "reasonable doubt, insufficient evidence and exoneration crap was associated ONLY with the obstruction charge.




/e Short version... Not 24 hours later, the Dems are already altering what was said by Barr to LOOK like Barr was referring to the collusion part when he was in fact, referring ONLY to the obstruction part. Fortunately for us, we have Goomshill, who posts copies of everything. ^^

This post was edited by Ghot on Mar 24 2019 09:40pm
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Mar 24 2019 09:49pm
Dems should tread carefully.
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Mar 24 2019 09:57pm



The obstruction part...








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