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Oct 23 2025 07:26am
another body exchange was done yesterday, same exact numbers as last one: 1000 ukrainians, 19 russians
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Oct 23 2025 07:27am
another body exchange was done yesterday, same exact numbers as last one: 1000 ukrainians, 19 russians


1019 Russians
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Oct 23 2025 07:29am
another body exchange was done yesterday, same exact numbers as last one: 1000 ukrainians, 19 russians


:cry:
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Oct 23 2025 10:56am
I never understood the reflex to compare war crimes, as if only the worst one deserves condemnation. This is as stupid as GOAT discussions in sports.


Isn't it normal human behavior that when "your" side has done something atrocious, you try to excuse and deflect from it as much as possible? A deliberate attack on a kindergarten would be indefensible even for the staunchest Russia shills, so of course it's far more comfortable to explain it as a mistake/with "in wars, shit happens".

That being said, I don't really see a convincing rationale for why Russia should have deliberately wasted a missile on a kindergarten.


Sure, children already show that kind of behavior. I just get the impression that once this kind of argumentation comes up, the dialogue is already stuck in a loop and the crime is downplayed. It makes much more sense to condemn each crime individually.
To stay with my sports comparison, an athlete’s achievements are immediately diminished if you always compare them to the GOAT.


looking at a thing and commenting on it does not constitute a knee jerk reaction, it also does not mean i am a Russia shill, however I accept people have their own views on things, views which are different from mine. It would be a difficult life if i cared how people addressed me. Russia is at war with Ukraine, and on the date in question Russia launched over 400 drones and 28 missiles (15 of these were ballistic missiles) at Ukraine which led to widespread structural damage in Kyiv, Zaporizhzhia, Poltava, Sumy, Odesa & Chernihiv. If western media, or users in this topic, wants to zoom in on the kindergarten and play that card, while ignoring everything else that was hit on that day, well, fine. Who am i to question whether that is the right narrative or not.

Personally, if I was a news editor (in lreland, Poland, Ukraine, Russia or China) i would have said Russia hit a kindergarten, AND Russia attacking with Ballistic missiles.

TLDR: Russia is launching Ballistic missiles at Ukraine every 2-3 days at the moment. 60+ fired this month.


This post was edited by ferdia on Oct 23 2025 11:21am
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Oct 23 2025 11:21am
double post. apologies.

In October 2025, Russia has been carrying out sustained attacks on Ukraine’s energy grid using a mix of ballistic and cruise missiles, as well as drones. These strikes have targeted power plants, substations, transmission lines, and gas infrastructure, aiming to degrade Ukraine’s ability to supply electricity, heating, and other critical services. Large-scale attacks, such as the strike on 22 October that involved 28 missiles (including approximately 15 ballistic), have caused widespread blackouts, particularly in Kyiv and northern regions. Hospitals, water systems, and essential services have been forced to operate on generators, while civilians experience power rationing and intermittent heating, creating immediate humanitarian and logistical challenges.

The cumulative effect of repeated strikes is significant. Damage to infrastructure not only disrupts daily life but also imposes enormous repair costs and strains maintenance crews. As winter approaches, the attacks amplify the risk to public health and safety, increasing the vulnerability of households, hospitals, and critical facilities. Ukrainian officials describe this as a deliberate strategy to create hardship, lower morale, and force the diversion of resources from military operations to civil infrastructure repair.

Beyond immediate civilian impacts, these strikes have broader economic and strategic consequences. Rolling blackouts slow down industry, logistics, and communications, while repeated damage to the same facilities prolongs restoration times. Nuclear facilities also face elevated risks if off-site power is lost. Overall, the attacks are not just a tactical measure but a systemic attempt to weaken Ukraine’s resilience and disrupt both civilian life and military readiness ahead of winter.

but yes yes a kindergarten was hit lets focus on that instead. look over here, dont look over there!

This post was edited by ferdia on Oct 23 2025 11:23am
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Oct 23 2025 03:40pm
Q: On October 23, the European Union announced that in its 19th round of sanctions against Russia, it had added Chinese companies to the list and, for the first time, sanctioned major Chinese oil refineries and traders. What is China’s comment on this?

A: Despite repeated representations and dissuasion from China, the EU has willfully proceeded to include Chinese companies once again in its 19th round of sanctions against Russia, and for the first time sanctioned large Chinese oil refineries and oil traders. China expresses strong dissatisfaction and firm opposition to this.

China has always opposed unilateral sanctions that lack a basis in international law or authorization from the United Nations. The EU’s actions run counter to the spirit of consensus reached by Chinese and European leaders, severely undermine the overall framework of China-EU economic and trade cooperation, and impact global energy security. China urges the EU to immediately stop listing Chinese companies and not to go further down the wrong path. China will take necessary measures to firmly safeguard the legitimate rights and interests of Chinese enterprises, as well as its own energy security and economic development.
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Oct 23 2025 04:40pm
Q: On October 23, the European Union announced that in its 19th round of sanctions against Russia, it had added Chinese companies to the list and, for the first time, sanctioned major Chinese oil refineries and traders. What is China’s comment on this?

A: Despite repeated representations and dissuasion from China, the EU has willfully proceeded to include Chinese companies once again in its 19th round of sanctions against Russia, and for the first time sanctioned large Chinese oil refineries and oil traders. China expresses strong dissatisfaction and firm opposition to this.

China has always opposed unilateral sanctions that lack a basis in international law or authorization from the United Nations. The EU’s actions run counter to the spirit of consensus reached by Chinese and European leaders, severely undermine the overall framework of China-EU economic and trade cooperation, and impact global energy security. China urges the EU to immediately stop listing Chinese companies and not to go further down the wrong path. China will take necessary measures to firmly safeguard the legitimate rights and interests of Chinese enterprises, as well as its own energy security and economic development.


To add context to the bolded: China's general position is, and always has been, that all sanctions must have a mandate from the UN Security Council... where Russia and they themselves have a veto right. :santa:
So long story short, their position boils down to "no sanctions against us or our close ally Russia can ever be legitimate", just coated in well-sounding diplomatic language.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Oct 23 2025 04:41pm
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Oct 23 2025 06:05pm
I don't think this conclusion that Ukraine is on the verge of collapse necessarily follows from the recent push for a ceasefire. Trump turned his attention to Ukraine pretty much as soon as the Gaza ceasefire deal was done. After notching a major foreign policy success by brokering a ceasefire in Gaza, it makes perfect sense from both a rational and a psychological point of view that Trump now seeks to do the same in Ukraine. Even from a geopolitical pov, it makes sense to get rid of this distraction so that the full focus can be turned on the actual rival, China. And also from an economic pov: ending the Ukraine war would ease inflation and supply chain issues across the globe. Trump's advisors probably know full well that a souring economy is the biggest threat to his presidency.

Likewise, Russia increasing its missile and drone attacks can also be viewed as their attempt to get into as dominant a position as possible ahead of negotiations. (Although I believe that it's more a retaliation for Ukrainian attacks on Russian refineries and factories.)


Agree on the bolded.

I don't really think it's about total collapse, and losing neither of these cities means Ukraine's army has collapsed. But if we are honest we can always point to key battles, typically with large scale losses that were significant in wars. Did the battle of Kursk mean Germany collapsed? Did Stalingrad? No of course not, but we can both look back and say it illustrates of how the war was shaping out. It's the big scale both sides throw all they got at it battles that usually serve as the indicators.

Fact of the matter is most large scale battles where both sides are throwing tons of resources Russia has eventually moved forward. Siverskodonetsk, Bakhmut, Toretsk, Avdiivka, Vuhledar, Mariupol.

Now you have Pokrovsk, Kupyansk trending the same way. And remember what has happened after the former fell, it usually leads to a bloom like expansion because it's usually the cities that are heavily fortified and can be turned into fortresses, and once they fall tens of km around it are basically ready for the taking.

I found this take on twitter and tbh think it is a very sober assesment of the war.


Quote
Fortresses Far Beyond Attrition

The idea that the Ukrainian tactic is to slowly cede territory at the cost of many lives, thereby winning a war of attrition, is nothing more than propaganda.

As I wrote some time ago, the numbers for Ukrainian losses of equipment like tanks, IFVs, and artillery are in the range of 75-95%, and the age range of Ukrainian soldiers in the trenches is over 45 years old. That manpower has had its weight reduced within the Ukrainian defensive tactic, but it still reveals a human shortage.

Ukraine hasn't won a significant battle on the eastern front in at least 3 years of war.

When you're defeated in a war of attrition, you don't automatically lose the war; you can choose to change tactics with the scraps of what's left of your equipment and manpower, shift to guerrilla operations, harden forced conscription even further, adjust enlistment ages, borrow more money, adopt forced entrenchment to the last man... the solutions to make it seem like you're still standing are countless, but all of them will only accentuate and prolong a defeat that's already been announced, because there is no victory without troops.

When a conflict drags on in this way, sustained by propaganda of possible victory, it will only have tactical numbers in a micro-zone to show, trying to elevate that to a level of false strategic perception, which is exactly what's happening today with the number of drones killing Russian soldiers.

Judging the invasion morally resolves absolutely nothing on the front. Right or wrong, the Russians are winning the war at a high cost, but one that can be paid without great difficulty considering the economic resources of these new regions.

There are only two things capable of changing the picture in Ukraine and easing Ukrainian losses: A peace agreement actively involving the US and trading land for other concessions, or simply other countries deciding to send troops, which is less likely.

Nothing beyond that has the strength to change the picture in Ukraine. The brutal war of attrition was already lost months ago, and today the country is dependent on a very effective design of drone warfare—but for how long?

The weekly average of Russian attacks using FAB bombs is nearly 500, for which Ukrainian defenses have no countermeasures at all, and the Russians have evolved a lot in terms of drones this year, becoming superior thanks to the massive use of fiber optic cables.

Although none of this will significantly alter the speed of the Russian advance, the question remains: What's the allies' plan besides [just] while Ukraine is being occupied?

No one disputes that Russian losses are greater, but Russia's capacity to replace its losses is much greater too. And that's the basic point of a war of attrition.

I emphasize once again that the Ukrainians know the terrain, the Russian doctrine, and are doing an excellent job of containment and delay, but what will happen when these fortresses are taken?
Of the large and highly fortified defenses, only Kramatorsk and Sloviansk remain.

It's a war with fewer casualties, but still with deaths and high desertion in the face of the panic from swarms of drones and the deafening explosions of the FABs.

The estimate is that the numbers of Ukrainian desertions and abandonments of positions are in the range of nearly 400,000, since official figures already exceed 250,000 and there are still many old cases to be processed.

One side in the conflict doesn't negotiate when it so decides. It does so when there are no means of victory and its capacity to replace losses is already minimal, foreseeing increases in territorial losses, economic and social deterioration.

Sometimes a good victory is obtained through the skill of negotiating the terms of peace, and Ukraine has heavyweights as allies in that process.



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Oct 23 2025 06:28pm
Q: On October 23, the European Union announced that in its 19th round of sanctions against Russia, it had added Chinese companies to the list and, for the first time, sanctioned major Chinese oil refineries and traders. What is China’s comment on this?

A: Despite repeated representations and dissuasion from China, the EU has willfully proceeded to include Chinese companies once again in its 19th round of sanctions against Russia, and for the first time sanctioned large Chinese oil refineries and oil traders. China expresses strong dissatisfaction and firm opposition to this.

China has always opposed unilateral sanctions that lack a basis in international law or authorization from the United Nations. The EU’s actions run counter to the spirit of consensus reached by Chinese and European leaders, severely undermine the overall framework of China-EU economic and trade cooperation, and impact global energy security. China urges the EU to immediately stop listing Chinese companies and not to go further down the wrong path. China will take necessary measures to firmly safeguard the legitimate rights and interests of Chinese enterprises, as well as its own energy security and economic development.


China is now imposing 2ndary sanctions on Rare Earth Minerals afaik. so ye. what comes around goes around.
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Oct 23 2025 08:14pm
he is not denying the story. he is denying the deliberate targeting. unlike in Israel where the targeting is deliberate. Russia could have flattened Ukraine 10 times over by now if it really wanted to, which, it does not. Gaza meanwhile, HAS been flattened. So Western Values has flattened a people, while Russian barbarism, has not.

in war stuff happens. focusing on strikes like this KINDERGARTEN! CHILDREN! is trying evoke and encourage a narrative, which we have seen throughout this war. Russia must be barbaric, orc's, less then human. dehumanize them, just like the palestinians, play on everyones fears. have to kill them have to kill them all, for truth, freedom and democracy!


I would agree with you that this isn't a deliberate attack. It's likely to be what mordor considers to be acceptable collateral damage.

There is a track record here however of attacks on schools, hospitals, shopping malls and residential buildings, on top of mass rape and kidnapping of children.

The true horror of this war however is the dehumanization of the orc that perpetrates all of the above to expand their shithole of an empire

This post was edited by duffman316 on Oct 23 2025 08:14pm
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