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Feb 9 2024 02:55pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Feb 9 2024 12:30pm)
What makes an invasion legal? Who is the deciding authority?


specifically in this case, the UN (which Russia is a member of). Putins 'small military operation' directly violates article 2(4)
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Feb 9 2024 02:58pm
Quote (gnarjay @ Feb 9 2024 03:55pm)
specifically in this case, the UN (which Russia is a member of). Putins 'small military operation' directly violates article 2(4)


What is the UN's enforcement power?
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Feb 9 2024 03:35pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Feb 9 2024 12:58pm)
What is the UN's enforcement power?


are we talking about the toothlessness of the UN or the legality of the Ukraine invasion?
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Feb 9 2024 04:21pm
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Feb 9 2024 04:25pm
Quote (gnarjay @ Feb 9 2024 04:35pm)
are we talking about the toothlessness of the UN or the legality of the Ukraine invasion?


A law which can't be enforced can hardly be called much of a law at all. Enforcement comes by way of the United Nations Security Council, what have they done?


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Feb 9 2024 04:41pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Feb 9 2024 02:25pm)
A law which can't be enforced can hardly be called much of a law at all. Enforcement comes by way of the United Nations Security Council, what have they done?


so if a law is broken but not enforced, is that legal in your eyes?
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Feb 9 2024 04:48pm
Quote (gnarjay @ Feb 9 2024 05:41pm)
so if a law is broken but not enforced, is that legal in your eyes?


If you don't pay your taxes the government will insist that you do. And if you continue to resist the government will come to collect. And if you resist collection men with guns will come to your house and shoot you dead. As Mao said, " Power grows out of the barrel of a gun". A law which is not backed by the promise of violence is not a law at all.
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Feb 9 2024 04:54pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Feb 9 2024 02:48pm)
If you don't pay your taxes the government will insist that you do. And if you continue to resist the government will come to collect. And if you resist collection men with guns will come to your house and shoot you dead. As Mao said, " Power grows out of the barrel of a gun". A law which is not backed by the promise of violence is not a law at all.


this is such a ridiculous GOP talking point, I cant say Im surprised to see it regurgitated by you of all people lmfao

Russia is currently facing hundreds of sanctions by myriad countries because of their actions in Ukraine. That seems about as far as it will go due to the bureaucracy of the UN with Russia being a permanent member and all. just because the UN is a disorganized shitshow doesnt make Russia/Putin's actions legal
thats about as wishy-washy of a defense as Ive seen so far
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Feb 9 2024 05:02pm
Quote (gnarjay @ Feb 9 2024 05:54pm)
this is such a ridiculous GOP talking point, I cant say Im surprised to see it regurgitated by you of all people lmfao

Russia is currently facing hundreds of sanctions by myriad countries because of their actions in Ukraine. That seems about as far as it will go due to the bureaucracy of the UN with Russia being a permanent member and all. just because the UN is a disorganized shitshow doesnt make Russia/Putin's actions legal
thats about as wishy-washy of a defense as Ive seen so far


No, it's a libertarian talking point, and they mean it pejoratively. I agree with the analysis and reject the conclusion. As Mao said, authority is ultimately a question of force.

The UN is not a government. The UN Security Council is a diplomatic vehicle by which the permanent members make clear what they find acceptable and unacceptable. The penalty for disobeying is the threat of violence. International law as it is does not exist.
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Feb 9 2024 05:26pm
Quote (gnarjay @ Feb 9 2024 04:41pm)
so if a law is broken but not enforced, is that legal in your eyes?


This is not just true of laws, but of rules at workplaces and indeed expectations in any environment.
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