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Sep 29 2023 12:45pm
Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Sep 29 2023 02:38pm)
The part you're dodging is it's fraud even if the bank doesn't send anybody.


Assuming what the judge said is 100% true without any extenuating circumstances. The fact that he's resorting to extreme behavior like the below, something that even left leaning NYT acknowledges should raise alarm bells on how impartial this judge actually is.

Quote
In his ruling, he wrote that the annual financial statements that Mr. Trump submitted to banks and insurance companies “clearly contain fraudulent valuations.” He criticized the defense lawyers in strong language and even fined them for using arguments that he had already found were without merit.

While some of the language of the decision was harsh, granting a summary judgment before the trial was not extraordinary. But Justice Engoron also took the unusual step of canceling business certificates that allow some of Mr. Trump’s properties to operate.

John W. Moscow, a lawyer who has worked on fraud investigations for more than 40 years, said the dissolution of the companies — nullifying their very right to exist — was striking.

“Corporate dissolution as a sanction for misconduct is not something I’ve heard of,” he said.


https://www.nytimes.com/article/trump-fraud-ruling.html
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Sep 29 2023 12:49pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Sep 29 2023 01:41pm)
i dont disagree on the banks, it could have easily been a bank by bank issue if they werent repackaged. that was gas on the fire and caused the crash. i just still think the bunk loans were the basis, a lack of due diligence there was the killer. and in small amounts it wouldnt have been an issue, banks would have just gotten houses for them to resell. but when its common practice and those shit loans make up a large amount of the market its game over.

as to the dog whistles i just think thats hogwash. u cant talk about institutions like blackrock or others buying up the american real estate market without sounding like an antisemite because "they own everything" has such a negative connotation. but its a real issue, and thats the only way to describe it. they are buying everything, they'll own america eventually.

:rofl:


If you make a bunch of bad mortgages that does not kill the system. The thing that kills the system is when they are valued and sold at a higher appraised value than is warranted. People start relying on the value of those mortgages to make loans, to predict future income, to do any number of things. But their mere existence is not detrimental since you balance risk and return.

That's why the ratings agencies were the most important part. They were the only ones doing fraud, and in doing so increased the values of the mortgages beyond what they should have been, which is the part that incentivized those bad loans and made.
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Sep 29 2023 12:49pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ Sep 29 2023 01:45pm)
Assuming what the judge said is 100% true without any extenuating circumstances. The fact that he's resorting to extreme behavior like the below, something that even left leaning NYT acknowledges should raise alarm bells on how impartial this judge actually is.

https://www.nytimes.com/article/trump-fraud-ruling.html


Dodge.

Just acknowledge it's still fraud.

This post was edited by NetflixAdaptationWidow on Sep 29 2023 12:49pm
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Sep 29 2023 12:51pm
Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Sep 29 2023 01:49pm)
If you make a bunch of bad mortgages that does not kill the system. The thing that kills the system is when they are valued and sold at a higher appraised value than is warranted. People start relying on the value of those mortgages to make loans, to predict future income, to do any number of things. But their mere existence is not detrimental since you balance risk and return.

That's why the ratings agencies were the most important part. They were the only ones doing fraud, and in doing so increased the values of the mortgages beyond what they should have been, which is the part that incentivized those bad loans and made.


none of this is incorrect, and perhaps it's semantics, but i did say basis. without the base of bad loans the terrible ratings wouldnt be possible. like i said gas on the fire, but spill gas on the bare ground and there's no explosion. the ratings agencies were the most important part, the catalyst the allowed the chain reaction.
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Sep 29 2023 12:53pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ Sep 29 2023 01:45pm)
Assuming what the judge said is 100% true without any extenuating circumstances. The fact that he's resorting to extreme behavior like the below, something that even left leaning NYT acknowledges should raise alarm bells on how impartial this judge actually is.
https://www.nytimes.com/article/trump-fraud-ruling.html


Imagine that if in the civil case against Kyle Rittenhouse, he draws some liberal activist judge, who then declares before it could go to the jury that Kyle Rittenhouse provably murdered black men in a racist shooting and therefore he's liable for civil penalties for a hate crime, and as an extra measure he's going to bar Kyle Rittenhouse from public appearances and political statements. And then PARD spent a few pages arguing about whether Kyle Rittenhouse was actually civilly liable for the deaths of pedo & co. There's a reason we should be hung up on the part where the judge made an egregious and obvious error in their foundational argument for an unprecedented and unconstitutional level of sanction.
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Sep 29 2023 12:54pm
Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Sep 29 2023 02:49pm)
Dodge.

Just acknowledge it's still fraud.


No dodge, we will see what happens when this is actually resolved. Not the first time activist AG finds an activist judge to sling shit at the wall asking for some draconic punitive asks.
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Sep 29 2023 12:54pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Sep 29 2023 01:51pm)
none of this is incorrect, and perhaps it's semantics, but i did say basis. without the base of bad loans the terrible ratings wouldnt be possible. like i said gas on the fire, but spill gas on the bare ground and there's no explosion. the ratings agencies were the most important part, the catalyst the allowed the chain reaction.


You need to go one step further back. Those loans were made *because* the ratings could be acquired. It's not like the banks made a ton of bad loans and then held them on the books until they found a ratings agency that would rubber stamp them.
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Sep 29 2023 12:55pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ Sep 29 2023 01:54pm)
No dodge, we will see what happens when this is actually resolved. Not the first time activist AG finds an activist judge to sling shit at the wall asking for some draconic punitive asks.


Congrats on running away from a very basic factual statement. If you make false statements that another relies on for your own financial gain, that's fraud. Period. End of story.

The fact you won't even acknowledge this shows how much of a hack you are.
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Sep 29 2023 12:56pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ Sep 29 2023 01:54pm)
No dodge, we will see what happens when this is actually resolved. Not the first time activist AG finds an activist judge to sling shit at the wall asking for some draconic punitive asks.


and then what, appeal it to an activist state supreme court, where this judge used to sit? and appeal that to a federal supreme court that moves at a glacial pace, and maybe after 2 years of irreparable damages- all designed for maximum political impact- they can get it heard?
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Sep 29 2023 12:57pm
Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Sep 29 2023 02:55pm)
Congrats on running away from a very basic factual statement. If you make false statements that another relies on for your own financial gain, that's fraud. Period. End of story.

The fact you won't even acknowledge this shows how much of a hack you are.


You're taking an activists framing as factual. lol.


Quote (Goomshill @ Sep 29 2023 02:56pm)
and then what, appeal it to an activist state supreme court, where this judge used to sit? and appeal that to a federal supreme court that moves at a glacial pace, and maybe after 2 years of irreparable damages- all designed for maximum political impact- they can get it heard?


Once someone other than Trump is elected in 2024, you're going to see so many of these quietly dropped. But they served the purpose as intended.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Sep 29 2023 01:00pm
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