We're absolutely fine. What people call an immigration crisis is very much concentrated in urban areas, and is according to most reports, decreasing in intensity over time. Yes, you will have the fundamental religious nuts, but Christians of those denominations have been here for centuries and we're ok with that.

Far more important issues to the EU than immigration:

-How to integrate democracy in the uneven world of EU
-How to deal with climate change EU-wide
-Housing crises and immense housing costs in nearly every major city
-The huge burden that social security and medical costs are going to be in decades to come

Of course you can argue that immigration is a burden and it definitely is, but compared to these issues it's close to insignificant.

obviously, but you are avoiding the important question
why are these places not wealthy, why do they lack funds?

i dont hate anyone, but i will continue to state the obvious
some cultures are better than others, some people are more talented than others
a country is only as good as its citizens, some countries should swim in money and are poor as fuck, others have no resources to speak of and are among the most advanced in the world
people and culture matter and ours are superior in every single aspect, thats not an opinion, its a fact for everyone to see

inb4 but....but colonialism
that "argument" is a dead horse

a good fisherman will always be wealthy enough btw



problems with housing and welfare state/health costs are directly connected to mass migration

it has been bad enough in major cities before and since 2015 over one million people have come to germany alone
obviously they dont want to live in rural areas and the cities are completely overwhelmed

paris has become an open air migrant camp, they dont even know where to put all these people anymore
and lets not even start to talk about the cost since the overwhelming majority will never provide a penny in taxes for our states

ridiculous how you downplay the migration crisis

instead of embracing a slowly declining population (that would also decrease pollution by the way) and covering the transition with modern technology we open the gates

great idea, what you call insignificant is making every problem we already have infinitely worse

Where you see me as downplaying immigration, I see you as both exaggerating the problems of immigration and downplaying other issues.

Immigration has been an issue on the political agenda since after WWII here. In the 60's people thought our country would go to shit because of immigration? Guess what, we're doing great. We do have some slight differences with the rest of Europe though. Maybe it's the 'Dutch directness' that foreigners often despise, that caused our political system to have to address immigration issues from early on. The LPF (Pim Fortuyn's party) was bigger in polls than Geert Wilders' PVV has ever been, and this was in 2002, 16 years ago. We've had varying levels of success with our approaches, but in general most problem areas have definitely improved. One approach that has worked pretty well has been the 'Vogelaarwijken'. Extra money was pumped into the 40 worst neighbourhoods of the Netherlands (not all of them were majority immigrant mind you). Most of those funds were used to help turn low level rental neighborhoods into bought properties (with more or less the same population). After all, people care far more about their house and neighborhood if it affects their financial situation.

And I very much doubt we can cover the transition towards an elderly population with just technology. Manpower is still very much needed in healthcare.

lets not mix up the regulated migration you are talking about with the unregulated we have right now, where hundreds of thousands with unknown identities choose the welfare state of their choice

no place is going to shit because of migration, it all depends on how many and who is coming
the dutch have chosen much more carefully than we did
for example it was perhaps necessary to invite guest workers back in 60's, the italians for example are just fine and dont even need to be mentioned
however not sending the turks back was a terrible mistake that has come to haunt us

i like what you did, but we cant just do the same here
money does not help against no go areas anymore, just be happy that you addressed the problem in time (not forgetting that there is still some trouble)
also you can be happy that you have political parties not refusing to do something

"Manpower is still very much needed in healthcare. "

correct, but lets not forget that technology will replace millions of low skilled workers in the future, so many jobs will just vanish so we can redirect manpower to where its needed
looking at estimations there is no way there will be enough jobs in healthcare for the huge number of unemployed that we will eventually end up with

there is no objective reason whatsoever to bring more people into western countries

and btw, for a northern guy like me the thing you call "dutch directness" is totally normal
we are rather similar in that regard and i have spent a lot of time on summer vacations in the netherlands as a kid

This post was edited by ampoo on Sep 20 2018 08:24am

when you're so desperate to 'prove' how inferior africans are that you inb4 colonialism, pretending it did not have significant and lasting effects on the whole continent...

posting in a 'look what this brown person did - all brown people bad' thread...

strange how china and south east asia have recovered so well compared to africa since their colonial times...

strange how some people are so unsophisticated they not only have to pretend that colonialism in africa and china was the same, they also can't distinguish between acknowledging it and its effects and blaming everything on it - so they just inb4 it and act like it's not a factor at all...
must be nice to live in such a simplistic black and white world...

I prefer a more modest approach, that: I'm lucky to grow up in the place I grow up in, with the culture that comes with it, with the freedoms that come with it. It's not like I did anything for them, so it's not like I can take credit for it. I grew up in a country with freedoms given, where a basic living are being given at birth and opportunities thrown at my feet. It is freaking amazing, life isn't always perfect though, but what we have, is kinda special, especially if you take a look at the rest of the world.

However saying that I'm always reminded by our culture is a timestamp in history, changing over time, we do quite ok now, but it has not been the same in the past and will not be the same in future, it comes and goes, like ancient Greece. There are also some flaws in our culture, not everything is great, other cultures are superior in quite a few ways. For instance, one of tthe flaws at this time, is that we're somewhat having a cultural blind spot, where we put too much emphasis on wealth and profits during our lifetimes. Life is a lot about personal gain, instead of helping each other and creating a better culture by encouraging each other to be the best in what they love or are doing. Most of our reactions (at this forum as well), are pointing fingers at each other for causing the shit we live in. While actually we should find ways to make life better for everyone, being the supposedly superior culture.
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Heh, going into colonization anyways.. It's not really a dead horse but more of a butterfly effect. A few hundred of years of an equal trade where you get paid for the man hours and resources, versus stopping the local cultural growth and placing your own "superior" infrastructure on their land. It's hard to tell how things would have evolved, for one, it would have spurred creativity from within the local culture, to create it's own infrastructure with the trade it was getting and everything that comes with it, second effect: we would have lacked the wealth for our culture to do what it did. Whether the boost to our culture at the time is beneficial for overall world wide progress is food for philosophers for sure. Somewhat like we might want to have a world wide fund for the 5000 most promising researchers each year (That would actually be the modern less hostile approach^). But generally speaking, after reaching the point that we have, we can give something back to Africa encourage development there mostly encouraging local efforts, actually a point you might agree on, since it's practically the conclusion of the gumball dude.

This post was edited by Knoppie on Sep 20 2018 05:07pm

oh look, after a wonderful time where discussions were actually possible, mister antifa himself is back at it again with his typical no argument posts

but i agree, colonialism had lasting effects
without the infrastructure built in these days many countries would be even worse

@knoppie
i will get back to you later, bit too late for a reply



This post was edited by ampoo on Sep 20 2018 05:12pm