The number one thing Biden would bring that would be good for the United States is stability.

I also love how you guys are still repeating the stupid shit about climate policies killing jobs. When you force investment you create new jobs in the long run. There's a reason why China is where all the green energy advancements are happening, and it's because we haven't been doing those climate policies. China has been aggressively pursuing green projects and cracking down on pollution. If we aren't going to fund science for green projects we might save some money now but we'll cost our future technological advancement. Especially now that solar is far cheaper than coal, and we have several companies making radical advances in electric cars, now is the time to start aggressively killing fossil fuels so private industry accelerates the grid update.

If Trump has shown one thing, it's that "hard stance on China" doesn't actually mean shit. He has done nothing against China, even when he could have started rallying international support around their literal genocide. You can say "Wahhh Biden will be soft on China" while Winnie the Pooh is bending Melania over the desk because Trump is such a cuck.

Whether somebody is pro globalization or not is irrelevant. We are global. Period. End of story. No amount of fighting it is going to make a difference.

It's only relevant in the sense that anti-globalist forces damage the economy and our relationships abroad by shoveling shit into the tide.

Technological job replacement is very real, it's ridiculous how you try to ignore it. Yes, new technologies create new jobs, but over the course of the past 50 or so years, almost every new industry provided less jobs than the old industry it displaced. For 10 decently paying manufacturing or fossil job that are lost, we will create 2-4 new jobs in IT and R&D, the rest can go bolster Bezos' army of box slaves or flip burgers. You're also ignoring the fact that those new jobs will require very different qualifications than the old jobs. You cant tell a worker from the coal mines to study electrical engineering so he can find a job in solar panel development, that's just not gonna work.

Similarly, you're wrong on globalization. Yes, some form of globalization is inevitable, but not the neoliberal kind of globalization that we have allowed to happen over the past 50 years. If globalization means that everyone on the planet has to compete with everyone else, with no regard for social, workplace and environmental standards, you're getting a race to the bottom that eventually impoverishes everyone but the top 1%. There is no reason why the countries of the first world should allow something like this, except for the greed of the ultrarich few who benefit from such policies.

/populist mode off

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Sep 3 2020 10:17am

welcome to my last 10 years in pard cosplaying Sisyphus.

Blah blah blah already not approaching my response honestly.

Technological job replacement is expected, and we should be encouraging it, because if we don't we end up with nothing but service workers and lose our technical edge around the world. I'm not ignoring anything, I'm pointing out that sacrificing short term jobs for long-term technological gains that results in better jobs is how you end up in a situation where you have to "get tough on China" because they're the ones actively investing in their technology infrastructure. Jobs also do not necessarily get replaced with less workers as entire new fields get created in the process. Yeah, accountants are far fewer, but the programmers that created the accounting software are a field that just did not exist, and so if you want to do the accounting on that job loss you have to figure in the multiple millions of programmers that now exist that facilitated the accountants being laid off.

Unless you don't make the technological investment, in which case those jobs go to China and you just lose the accounting jobs and get nothing in return.

Multiple millions of programmers exist because of the entirety of fields which were digitalized. On the field of accounting alone, digitalization has still led to a huge loss of jobs, we dont have millions of programmers occupied with nothing but accounting software.

Also note that I'm not suggesting we give up investing in technology. I'm merely pointing out that these policies will inevitably create a lot of losers among blue-collar and non-college folks, even if they might be for the better of society as a whole; and that the number of short term job losses will probably exceed the number of long-term job gains. Your whole line of reasoning about "when you invest, you create new jobs" ignores this issue.

On balance, ending fossils will kill a ton of blue-collar jobs and create a far lower number of white-collar jobs in return. Going through with it might perhaps be necessary anyway, but this issue has to be taken into account. If you suggest aggressive climate policies without providing a convincing solution for this aspect, you'll get affected voters to push back against those policies and vote for figures like Trump.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Sep 3 2020 10:46am

No, I'm not trying to be edgy. I'm further to the right than most of the country (but probably not on the forum) when it comes to labor laws. I think you should be paid w/e the market says you should be paid. A fast food worker making $15 an hour when the value that they add to the company is half that is absurd to me. I'm not sure why you're calling me a "battered wife" when I've been a Republican for most of my life. As a new Democrat, my goal is to push the party to the right as much as possible (basically to the center). I feel euphoric knowing that I cancelled a progressive Bernie supporter's vote in the primary.

Yea, we can skip the representation argument. I'd rather have an oligarchy than what you're pushing for so we can agree to disagree. Regarding the working class, I think the best thing would be to focus on their children because the parents and grandparents are a lost cause IMO. We can have retraining programs for those who want to compete but a lot of them simply don't. Alas, I think Biden and the Democrats are going to give them something noticeable and helpful. Obviously it's not to the degree that you want, but your views are radical.

let the fast food workers make 15$/ hour. they'll be replaced with a robot inside of a calendar year and the double pay can be severance.

There are more renewable energy jobs in America than all of the fossil fuel jobs combined, by a 3-to-1 ratio. Yet... they try to complain about tekin err jerbs!

This post was edited by inkanddagger on Sep 3 2020 12:04pm

Trump took coal country when pre-election it wasn't a given. same in mining country in swing states in the rust belt up north.

democrats can downplay the importance of these sectors all they want. until the electoral college is replaced it will be at their peril.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Sep 3 2020 12:12pm