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Dec 16 2019 01:34pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Dec 16 2019 10:45am)
It's not about state rights or who administers a program, this is about high-tax states being able to have their residents pay less in federal taxes because their state taxes are so high.

Essentially, there are two competing approaches. The blue state models is "higher state taxes, but higher levels of services and state spending on its residents, its infrastructure, etc". The red state model is "low state taxes, but less services".
Basically, the higher state taxes are the "fair price" that blue state residents have to pay for the increased level of services and state spending. If they can set off their high state taxes with their federal tax, they are paying less in federal tax than a red state person of equal income situation.
Hence, via the SALT deductions, blue state people paid less than their fair share in overall taxes, at the expense of the federal budget, which has to be balanced by either hikes in federal taxes, increased federal debt, or reduced federal spending - all of which hit blue and red state people equally.

The bottom line therefore is that the SALT deductions allowed the blue states to leech off of the red states, and more importantly: it allowed them to distort the tradeoff of their "blue state model", to make it seem more advantageous and attractive than it actually is - which has a lot of political implications.


But when you have "lower taxes and lower services," the federal government steps in to fulfill that service OR the people end up stuck in a cycle of poverty. I think a more holistic analysis is required in these exercises.

If you look at it in a vacuum though, you're correct. Two people making 100 grand would have the following breakdown. Red state guy pays 25k in income to the feds. Blue state guy pays 10k to the state and then pays 22.5k in income to the feds (90/4 due to the deduction). So yes, the red state guy pays more in federal tax while the blue state guy pays more taxes in general.

Now, in aggregate, you end up with something closer to reality. The investments that blue states make tend to pay off in that they are better educated, healthier, wealthier, etc. There's a reason why there's a lot of industry associated with universities. If Stanford and Berkeley weren't in the Bay Area, you wouldn't have multiple national labs there and you certainly wouldn't have Silicon Valley. In a service based economy, you need to follow the blue state model unless your state is rich in natural resources (Texas, Alaska, etc.).

At the end of the day though, we're talking about something that's pretty inconsequential in terms of funding. The SALT cap sucks for people like me, and I'd love to get rid of it to get a couple thousand bucks, but it's existence doesn't really change anything in the aggregate. It's strictly political.
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Dec 16 2019 02:41pm
Quote (thundercock @ 16 Dec 2019 20:34)
Now, in aggregate, you end up with something closer to reality. The investments that blue states make tend to pay off in that they are better educated, healthier, wealthier, etc. [...] In a service based economy, you need to follow the blue state model unless your state is rich in natural resources (Texas, Alaska, etc.).


Oh really? Some statistics about California from a National Review article:


Quote
California now hosts one of three Americans who are on some sort of federal, state, or local welfare supplement. About a fifth of the state lives below the poverty level.


Quote
California ranks first among the states in the percentage of residents over 25 who have never finished the ninth grade— 9.7 percent of California residents, or about 4 million Californians. It also rates 49th in the number of state residents who never graduated from high school — or about 18 percent of the current population. In other words, about 7 million Californians do not possess a high-school diploma


Quote
The top California income-tax rate is 13.3 percent (the nation’s highest). The state’s average sales tax is (conservatively) about 8.5 percent (ninth in the nation). California’s bewildering combined array of gasoline taxes are about 55 cents per gallon and rising (second-highest in the nation).
In exchange, California public-school test scores rank between 44th and 46th in the nation. Its roads and infrastructure are rated in various surveys between 42nd and 45th.


Quote
one of the landmarks of the new California mentality is denial and self-righteousness that assume it is illiberal to notice that a quarter of the nation’s homeless population sleeps on California streets, or that violent crime is 20 percent higher in California than the national median



https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/01/california-coastal-elites-poor-immigrants-fleeing-middle-class/


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Quote
At the end of the day though, we're talking about something that's pretty inconsequential in terms of funding. The SALT cap sucks for people like me, and I'd love to get rid of it to get a couple thousand bucks, but it's existence doesn't really change anything in the aggregate. It's strictly political.


This is of course true, there's a lot of political symbolism involved.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Dec 16 2019 02:41pm
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Dec 16 2019 02:56pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Dec 16 2019 02:41pm)
Oh really? Some statistics about California from a National Review article:











https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/01/california-coastal-elites-poor-immigrants-fleeing-middle-class/


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This is of course true, there's a lot of political symbolism involved.


It's public universities are among the best in the world and it has a huge portion of the counties and the worlds technology development.

Certain statistics there arent super meaningful since they are a huge attraction and are right on the border.
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Dec 16 2019 03:01pm
Does anyone think Trump will pussy out on the debates when the time comes?

I think he will not show up.

Kinda like when a person defending themselves in a trial doesn't testify because its less risky to just say nothing at all.
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Dec 16 2019 03:08pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ 16 Dec 2019 21:56)
It's public universities are among the best in the world and it has a huge portion of the counties and the worlds technology development.

Certain statistics there arent super meaningful since they are a huge attraction and are right on the border.


The article that I linked actually gives a really nice breakdown of the schizophrenia of California: host to the richest, economically vibrant and most well-educated regions in the country, but also to the country's largest homeless and welfare populations, some of the highest school dropout rates and deeply depraved communities.
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Dec 16 2019 08:37pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Dec 16 2019 04:08pm)
The article that I linked actually gives a really nice breakdown of the schizophrenia of California: host to the richest, economically vibrant and most well-educated regions in the country, but also to the country's largest homeless and welfare populations, some of the highest school dropout rates and deeply depraved communities.


Liberals tend to be allergic to the scientific method these days. Must be the protestant source of the scientific method.
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Dec 16 2019 10:50pm
Trump 2020
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Dec 17 2019 02:03pm




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Dec 17 2019 02:07pm
Quote (Ghot @ 17 Dec 2019 21:03)


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Dec 17 2019 02:25pm
Quote (Saucisson6000 @ Dec 17 2019 03:07pm)




Aww, your first meme, how cute. :)
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