what? no, what i am demonstrating is that whatever criterion you jump to when the previous one is refuted (in this case population density -> urbanisation rate) - statistics do not back it up. so you will have to find another way to "justify" your doublethink or just live with the fact that it doesn't make any sense...

Fair enough, it is of a some importance.

I was just saying in other words that the preferred tools for self defense are those that have equal or better capabilities than those of an attacker. If liberal gun laws would result in an area where everybody has guns on the street, then the gun will be seen as the preferred tool of self defense.
creating a vicious cycle.

trying to compare 2 countries on the basis of any one variable is for the statistically ignorant. and its done far too often in pard, especially on gun control.

the hard fact is that no other industrialized nation has a system like ours to compare to very well. Australia and the UK are somewhat close on a large number of factors but always fall a few factors too short for a good system apples to apples comparison. we are the great experiment, the melting pot. there is no one like us, there never has been.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Mar 14 2018 03:03pm

I am in favour of liberal gun laws when there is good reason for it, and I am against it when I see good reason for that. police reaction times in rural regions being sluggish is a factor that applies to the united states, but not to germany. police reaction times, however, are not the key factor driving the level of gun violence. norway and canada are more peaceful and egalitarian countries than the US, and there are less guns and less culture of gun violence in those countries. therefore, their gun violence statistics are better than those of the US.

so, police reaction times are, in my eyes, a good argument for giving people the right to defend themselves against the threats they are faced with. this threat level, however, is much higher in the US than in germany/canada/norway/australia. and police reaction times or the degree of urbanization are not explaining this difference in the threat level.

I totally get and admit that my position on this issue is slightly convoluted and complex, but I still consider it consistent. feel free to disagree!

The primary variable you can't compare with any other country is the rampant gun culture over there. The UK or Australia never had it, if the US didn't then a blanket gun ban would be the optimal solution.

I can't really see gun violence in the US decreasing much without a blanket gun ban. It's objectively safer with no guns, but not feasible considering US history and culture surrounding guns. Also have to consider the circulation of guns being so high that illegal gun purchases would be so much easier under a ban when compared to any other country.

This post was edited by dro94 on Mar 14 2018 03:21pm

There might be less gun violence with no guns. But extrapolating that to safer is just too much of a stretch.

It's been well established that fewer guns leads to lesser consequences of violent crimes.

Basically if you have a gun it makes it easier to escalate the situation into a deadly one, ya know, because you have an item made for killing.

Its a weak/nonexistent correlation

trying to justify the "solution" with the problems caused by it in the first place - that's some olympic level mental gymnastics...

that being said, that strange sense of exceptionalism (especially when you're out of actual arguments) does NOT make reasonable and fact based comparisons invalid. this might come as a surprise to many americans, but each and every country is unique in more than just one way, each one has unique problems, history, cultural oddities and other factors - but that does NOT mean countries just outright dismiss promising and well proven solutions that DO work in other countries. that was never the case, neither in europe not in america - it's just an incredibly lazy and dishonest way to say "i don't want to listen to common sense and solutions i personally don't like, so i just pretend they wouldn't work anyway because we are sooooo special"....

Its not well proven