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Apr 21 2018 08:03am
Quote (IceMage @ Apr 21 2018 05:21am)
Debt free college, raising taxes on the rich, and CJ reform are not status quo. Status quo is keeping what we've got, or making small changes. Those proposals are big. Not universal healthcare big, or deporting every illegal immigrant big, but still significant.

Hillary ran on what she thought she could actually get done. I'm sure deep down she'd like it if America had a single-payer system... never going to happen in this political environment though. She was pragmatic, and that's not always exciting.



Are you arguing that America selects a president based on how practical and vetted their views are? Really?



I was asking for a source on this claim: 70% of her campaign spending was attack ads. I suppose you meant 70% of her ads were attack ones?

We've been over it, but clearly your arguments weren't convincing. All of us experienced the same campaign, and the notion that Trump was the one focused on policy and Hillary was the one focused on slinging mud seems silly to almost everyone here outside the cult. To be fair to her, she had to play in the sensationalist media environment too. Trump was getting covered all day every day for attacking her(or John McCain, gold star families, judges with Mexican heritage, etc), she had to get herself out there somehow.

I said earlier, Hillary's ads were more focused on attacking character than Trump's. Ads are only one aspect of a campaign though. Again, go watch a Hillary town hall, or rally, or any of the debates. She was obviously focused on policy. Whereas, Trump had the typical routine of mud slinging and simplistic one liners to hype up the crowd.

Calling Hillary's proposals vague just isn't true... she had policy papers on practically everything on her campaign site. Just because she couldn't package those proposals in simplistic one-liners doesn't mean they didn't exist. Again, what did I say? Trump won because dumb people tune out when a candidate actually talks policy.



The highest viewed videos on her youtube channel doesn't seem to be great evidence of what her overall campaign messaging was. The dislike:like ratio is 2:1, meaning the Trump cultists supplied 2/3 of the views because they got triggered.

Go look at a rally. Did you watch any of Hillary's at the time? I know CNN didn't televise hers... hmm, I wonder why? Maybe because Donald rambling up there and throwing verbal bombs is better television?

Did you watch the debates?


Hillary lost, get over it already holy shit :rofl:

This post was edited by JohnMiller92 on Apr 21 2018 08:04am
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Apr 21 2018 08:12am
Quote (JohnMiller92 @ Apr 21 2018 06:03am)
Hillary lost, get over it already holy shit :rofl:




It was her turn buddy, popular vote

#hotsauce
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Apr 21 2018 08:47am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Apr 21 2018 08:47am)
maybe because hillary's rallies were boring as fuck and nobody outside her die-hard followers wanted to seem them?!
trump's rallies were drawing big crowds, clinton's werent. so your argument that trump simply got more media coverage because the nature of his rallies made for better television than that of clinton's doesnt add up.

also note that trump created a huge groundswell of rural and/or white working-class support that materialized on election day. therefore, his rallies didnt just draw larger crowds because trump was the better entertainer than hillary; these people didnt just attend those rallies to be entertained - the groundswell on election day proves that trump convinced those people to actually go to the booth and vote for him.

do you really think all those uneducated rednecks who hadnt voted for many election cycles moved their fat and lazy asses to the voting booths only because they enjoyed trump the entertainer, without being convinced by his policies?


Yeah, compared to Trump rambling and bomb throwing, Hillary's rallies were boring. If you wanted to hear nuanced policy, Hillary was the person, not Trump. Trump was more entertaining to watch, which is why CNN covered all his shit.

Those voters came out for Trump because they liked him personally, and they liked his simplistic policy proposals. They were easy to understand, no doubt about it.

Quote (JohnMiller92 @ Apr 21 2018 09:03am)
Hillary lost, get over it already holy shit :rofl:


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Apr 21 2018 08:49am
Trump is an over dramatic Cheeto and will be stepped on my the shoe of Soros.
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Apr 21 2018 08:58am
Wow hes not even out of office and the Trumpers are trying to rewrite history
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Apr 21 2018 10:40am
Quote (Thor123422 @ Apr 21 2018 06:58am)
Wow hes not even out of office and the Trumpers are trying to rewrite history



Trump is our obama
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Apr 21 2018 10:48am
Quote (IceMage @ Apr 21 2018 07:21am)
I said earlier, Hillary's ads were more focused on attacking character than Trump's. Ads are only one aspect of a campaign though. Again, go watch a Hillary town hall, or rally, or any of the debates. She was obviously focused on policy. Whereas, Trump had the typical routine of mud slinging and simplistic one liners to hype up the crowd.
Calling Hillary's proposals vague just isn't true... she had policy papers on practically everything on her campaign site. Just because she couldn't package those proposals in simplistic one-liners doesn't mean they didn't exist. Again, what did I say? Trump won because dumb people tune out when a candidate actually talks policy.

The highest viewed videos on her youtube channel doesn't seem to be great evidence of what her overall campaign messaging was. The dislike:like ratio is 2:1, meaning the Trump cultists supplied 2/3 of the views because they got triggered.
Go look at a rally. Did you watch any of Hillary's at the time? I know CNN didn't televise hers... hmm, I wonder why? Maybe because Donald rambling up there and throwing verbal bombs is better television?
Did you watch the debates?


And let me guess, the point is supposed to be that the dastardly media gave Trump free publicity that swung the election because its better ratings to focus on his verbal bombs than to televise Hillary waffling about her vague undefined policy points in empty rallies or boring town halls? Lets be real: The media was focusing on what Hillary's campaign told them to focus on. Many were literally passing their stories through her campaign headquarters before publishing, a conspicuous favor not extended to Trump. That free publicity consisted of non-stop media assaults on Trump and a lynch squad against him accusing him of being sexist, racist, islamophobic, antisemitic, bigoted, etc etc. They pulled out all the stops and CNN was acting as a 24/7 Clinton News Network that didn't have to write its expenses to the FEC.

I read through Hillary's campaign proposals on her website, I listened to what little she said at debates. She intentionally avoided taking strong positions or promising concrete policy points that she could be later called out on, or promised those that everyone knew she was lying about like TPP. Most of it was just that sort of vague ill defined DNC platform jumble of social/political pandering. She's going to do something about criminal justice reform, she wants to look at TPP again now that its unpopular, she wants to make healthcare affordable, 'a fair tax system', 'an economy that works for everyone', 'end campus sexual assault', 'disability rights'. I've seen better defined policy inside fortune cookies. Her website basically was a list of issues that was important to demographics she wanted to pander to and had no actual plans to address any of them. The reason that policies like 'ban travel from muslim countries' and 'build a wall' and 'end TPP' and 'end NAFTA' appeal to people isn't just because it can be written on a 3x5 notecard and messaged properly, its not just because its simplistic, its because it creates promises that a politician can be held to. If Hillary had gotten into office, we all know that whatever she was going to do about 'criminal justice reform' is whatever was politically convenient at the time and appeased her special interests and voting demographics. She would revert to being a superpredator bashing three-strikes-law dragon lady in a heartbeat if she thought her 2020 opponent would run Willie Horton ads against her. Did anyone, anywhere in America actually believe Hillary was against TPP?

Whats more important, for issues where Hillary just embraced the generic DNC policy platform and listed specific uncontroversial bills she supports or spending she ostensibly planned like '
Quote (IceMage @ Apr 21 2018 07:21am)
I said earlier, Hillary's ads were more focused on attacking character than Trump's. Ads are only one aspect of a campaign though. Again, go watch a Hillary town hall, or rally, or any of the debates. She was obviously focused on policy. Whereas, Trump had the typical routine of mud slinging and simplistic one liners to hype up the crowd.
Calling Hillary's proposals vague just isn't true... she had policy papers on practically everything on her campaign site. Just because she couldn't package those proposals in simplistic one-liners doesn't mean they didn't exist. Again, what did I say? Trump won because dumb people tune out when a candidate actually talks policy.

The highest viewed videos on her youtube channel doesn't seem to be great evidence of what her overall campaign messaging was. The dislike:like ratio is 2:1, meaning the Trump cultists supplied 2/3 of the views because they got triggered.
Go look at a rally. Did you watch any of Hillary's at the time? I know CNN didn't televise hers... hmm, I wonder why? Maybe because Donald rambling up there and throwing verbal bombs is better television?
Did you watch the debates?


And let me guess, the point is supposed to be that the dastardly media gave Trump free publicity that swung the election because its better ratings to focus on his verbal bombs than to televise Hillary waffling about her vague undefined policy points in empty rallies or boring town halls? Lets be real: The media was focusing on what Hillary's campaign told them to focus on. Many were literally passing their stories through her campaign headquarters before publishing, a conspicuous favor not extended to Trump. That free publicity consisted of non-stop media assaults on Trump and a lynch squad against him accusing him of being sexist, racist, islamophobic, antisemitic, bigoted, etc etc. They pulled out all the stops and CNN was acting as a 24/7 Clinton News Network that didn't have to write its expenses to the FEC.

I read through Hillary's campaign proposals on her website, I listened to what little she said at debates. She intentionally avoided taking strong positions or promising concrete policy points that she could be later called out on, or promised those that everyone knew she was lying about like TPP. Most of it was just that sort of vague ill defined DNC platform jumble of social/political pandering. She's going to do something about criminal justice reform, she wants to look at TPP again now that its unpopular, she wants to make healthcare affordable, 'a fair tax system', 'an economy that works for everyone', 'end campus sexual assault', 'disability rights'. I've seen better defined policy inside fortune cookies. Her website basically was a list of issues that was important to demographics she wanted to pander to and had no actual plans to address any of them. The reason that policies like 'ban travel from muslim countries' and 'build a wall' and 'end TPP' and 'end NAFTA' appeal to people isn't just because it can be written on a 3x5 notecard and messaged properly, its not just because its simplistic, its because it creates promises that a politician can be held to. If Hillary had gotten into office, we all know that whatever she was going to do about 'criminal justice reform' is whatever was politically convenient at the time and appeased her special interests and voting demographics. She would revert to being a superpredator bashing three-strikes-law dragon lady in a heartbeat if she thought her 2020 opponent would run Willie Horton ads against her. Did anyone, anywhere in America actually believe Hillary was against TPP?

Whats more important, for issues where Hillary just embraced the generic DNC policy platform and listed specific uncontroversial bills she supports or spending she ostensibly planned like '
Quote (IceMage @ Apr 21 2018 07:21am)
I said earlier, Hillary's ads were more focused on attacking character than Trump's. Ads are only one aspect of a campaign though. Again, go watch a Hillary town hall, or rally, or any of the debates. She was obviously focused on policy. Whereas, Trump had the typical routine of mud slinging and simplistic one liners to hype up the crowd.
Calling Hillary's proposals vague just isn't true... she had policy papers on practically everything on her campaign site. Just because she couldn't package those proposals in simplistic one-liners doesn't mean they didn't exist. Again, what did I say? Trump won because dumb people tune out when a candidate actually talks policy.

The highest viewed videos on her youtube channel doesn't seem to be great evidence of what her overall campaign messaging was. The dislike:like ratio is 2:1, meaning the Trump cultists supplied 2/3 of the views because they got triggered.
Go look at a rally. Did you watch any of Hillary's at the time? I know CNN didn't televise hers... hmm, I wonder why? Maybe because Donald rambling up there and throwing verbal bombs is better television?
Did you watch the debates?


And let me guess, the point is supposed to be that the dastardly media gave Trump free publicity that swung the election because its better ratings to focus on his verbal bombs than to televise Hillary waffling about her vague undefined policy points in empty rallies or boring town halls? Lets be real: The media was focusing on what Hillary's campaign told them to focus on. Many were literally passing their stories through her campaign headquarters before publishing, a conspicuous favor not extended to Trump. That free publicity consisted of non-stop media assaults on Trump and a lynch squad against him accusing him of being sexist, racist, islamophobic, antisemitic, bigoted, etc etc. They pulled out all the stops and CNN was acting as a 24/7 Clinton News Network that didn't have to write its expenses to the FEC.

I read through Hillary's campaign proposals on her website, I listened to what little she said at debates. She intentionally avoided taking strong positions or promising concrete policy points that she could be later called out on, or promised those that everyone knew she was lying about like TPP. Most of it was just that sort of vague ill defined DNC platform jumble of social/political pandering. She's going to do something about criminal justice reform, she wants to look at TPP again now that its unpopular, she wants to make healthcare affordable, 'a fair tax system', 'an economy that works for everyone', 'end campus sexual assault', 'disability rights'. I've seen better defined policy inside fortune cookies. Her website basically was a list of issues that was important to demographics she wanted to pander to and had no actual plans to address any of them. The reason that policies like 'ban travel from muslim countries' and 'build a wall' and 'end TPP' and 'end NAFTA' appeal to people isn't just because it can be written on a 3x5 notecard and messaged properly, its not just because its simplistic, its because it creates promises that a politician can be held to. If Hillary had gotten into office, we all know that whatever she was going to do about 'criminal justice reform' is whatever was politically convenient at the time and appeased her special interests and voting demographics. She would revert to being a superpredator bashing three-strikes-law dragon lady in a heartbeat if she thought her 2020 opponent would run Willie Horton ads against her. Did anyone, anywhere in America actually believe Hillary was against TPP?

Whats more important, for issues where Hillary just embraced the generic DNC policy platform and listed specific uncontroversial bills she supports or spending she ostensibly planned like 'Invest in building world-class American airports', it was her campaign's conscious choice to not build her messaging around it. Whatever few positions she held, she neglected to get out there despite having all the pull in the media, a billion in campaign funds, vastly disproportionate ad time and time in the debates. It was her decision to run a negative campaign and neglect policy messaging in favor of smearing Trump. It no doubt looked like an attractive option for an easy campaign, expending less political capital by making less promises and supposedly being more effective at sealing the deal. The reason America didn't hear about Hillary's policies isn't because Americans are dumb and tune it out, its because she didn't run on policy. Her husband did. Look at what James Carville did with 'Its the economy, stupid'. Trump did. And people listened. If Hillary had wanted to run a policy campaign, her strategists would have boiled it down to a 3x5, built memes, plastered it on billboards, made it talked about in every house. They didnt'
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Apr 21 2018 10:55am
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Apr 21 2018 11:20am
Quote (tonerbond @ Apr 21 2018 10:55am)


lol I just noticed that copy/paste flub and went back to it right as the edit timer expired for no JSP stars. Looks like the full text got vacuumed into the pasted hillary policy line. It should be;

Quote
And let me guess, the point is supposed to be that the dastardly media gave Trump free publicity that swung the election because its better ratings to focus on his verbal bombs than to televise Hillary waffling about her vague undefined policy points in empty rallies or boring town halls? Lets be real: The media was focusing on what Hillary's campaign told them to focus on. Many were literally passing their stories through her campaign headquarters before publishing, a conspicuous favor not extended to Trump. That free publicity consisted of non-stop media assaults on Trump and a lynch squad against him accusing him of being sexist, racist, islamophobic, antisemitic, bigoted, etc etc. They pulled out all the stops and CNN was acting as a 24/7 Clinton News Network that didn't have to write its expenses to the FEC.

I read through Hillary's campaign proposals on her website, I listened to what little she said at debates. She intentionally avoided taking strong positions or promising concrete policy points that she could be later called out on, or promised those that everyone knew she was lying about like TPP. Most of it was just that sort of vague ill defined DNC platform jumble of social/political pandering. She's going to do something about criminal justice reform, she wants to look at TPP again now that its unpopular, she wants to make healthcare affordable, 'a fair tax system', 'an economy that works for everyone', 'end campus sexual assault', 'disability rights'. I've seen better defined policy inside fortune cookies. Her website basically was a list of issues that was important to demographics she wanted to pander to and had no actual plans to address any of them. The reason that policies like 'ban travel from muslim countries' and 'build a wall' and 'end TPP' and 'end NAFTA' appeal to people isn't just because it can be written on a 3x5 notecard and messaged properly, its not just because its simplistic, its because it creates promises that a politician can be held to. If Hillary had gotten into office, we all know that whatever she was going to do about 'criminal justice reform' is whatever was politically convenient at the time and appeased her special interests and voting demographics. She would revert to being a superpredator bashing three-strikes-law dragon lady in a heartbeat if she thought her 2020 opponent would run Willie Horton ads against her. Did anyone, anywhere in America actually believe Hillary was against TPP?

Whats more important, for issues where Hillary just embraced the generic DNC policy platform and listed specific uncontroversial bills she supports or spending she ostensibly planned like ''nvest in building world-class American airports', it was her campaign's conscious choice to not build her messaging around it. Whatever few positions she held, she neglected to get out there despite having all the pull in the media, a billion in campaign funds, vastly disproportionate ad time and time in the debates. It was her decision to run a negative campaign and neglect policy messaging in favor of smearing Trump. It no doubt looked like an attractive option for an easy campaign, expending less political capital by making less promises and supposedly being more effective at sealing the deal. The reason America didn't hear about Hillary's policies isn't because Americans are dumb and tune it out, its because she didn't run on policy. Her husband did. Look at what James Carville did with 'Its the economy, stupid'. Trump did. And people listened. If Hillary had wanted to run a policy campaign, her strategists would have boiled it down to a 3x5, built memes, plastered it on billboards, made it talked about in every house. They didn't
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Apr 21 2018 12:57pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ 21 Apr 2018 10:58)
Wow hes not even out of office and the Trumpers are trying to rewrite history

says an election-denier
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