the working class would get 'more than they deserve', huh? so what exactly do you REALISTICALLY expect biden to do for them, and why would that be 'more than they deserve'?

- some kind of affordable universal healthcare system that is not linked to employment?
- a livable minimum wage that will largely eliminate the need for second and third jobs to make ends meet?
- a government that represents the will of the people, and not exclusively that of special interest groups?
- sick and family leave even remotely on par with your peer nations?
- affordable college education for working class families?

biden's whole political career, if you took an HONEST look at it, would tell you that you're delusional. when push came to shove, he always sided with his donors over his voters. you believe vague campaign promises over decades of record. battered wives gonna make excuses i guess...

You guys are way too sensitive and lack a sense of humor or self awareness. I'm so sick and tired of bothering interacting with you, because you're exhausting.

All of this hinges on the Dems taking the Senate. If they don't, Biden won't be able to do much at all.

A public option is a possibility but that will require immense political capital and likely the elimination of the filibuster. Biden will be busy trying to fix all the shit Trump broke and he'd be better served focusing on pharmaceuticals. I think the correct thing to do would be to hold off until after the 2022 election for a public option. It's risky but I think Biden could do a lot of little things that will allow him to keep both chambers.

15 dollar minimum wage will probably pass. That's more than those dirtbags deserve IMO but it is what it is.

We won't have a government that represents the "will of the people" by your standards. God help us if we ever do. You've seen how racist and stupid this country is (Trump could STILL get elected even after all this..)

No, we won't have paid sick/family leave compared to other developed nations. That's a pretty big ask because right now we're looking at 3 months of UNPAID leave for women only.

No, we won't have affordable college for working class families. That's not particularly important right now compared to primary/secondary education anyway. I think with Biden you'll get universal pre-school which would be HUGE for working class families. At the end of the day, college is for privileged people and we should probably focus on the people who are actually downtrodden.

are you just trying to be edgy, or a genuine scumbag? i honestly can't tell.

anyway, i see you already have your excuses lined up for why biden would NOT bring any real change. classic battered wife really.

also, we've been over the whole 'government representing the people' argument. that does NOT mean that every racist notion or petty grievance should be represented and amplified, but that the government works in the best interest of the people, making sure their rights are protected and their interests represented - which currently is undeniably not the case, and won't be until the donor class has lost its monopoly on policy making. neither establishment will do that, and i'm pretty sure you know that, otherwise you wouldn't have to resort to that dishonest framing all the time, in order to rationalise a de facto oligarchy.

so we have a most likely no, a probably yes, a no, a no, and another no concerning some of the very basic solutions that would help out the working class. don't be shy and tell me all the real good stuff that biden would do for the average american - since it's so much that they don't even deserve it, according to you.

fender: if you support Trump, or Biden, you're a battered housewife. Bernie or bust!!!

this is like when your sports team is eliminated, you stop watching the rest of the year, but still make daily facebook posts about how the other teams are trash and their fans suck.

bernie lost, it wasnt russia, it wasnt hacking, it was because his ideals are too far ahead of their time and the voter base is predictably more selfish than his fans knew.

when asked if people will vote selfishly or morally only a fool banks on morals.

strawmanning hard there, when have i ever called a trump supporter a 'battered housewife'? this is about a specific topic (helping out the working class more than they even deserve), and not a general support for biden or trump. why isn't there a single topic in which you can make a genuine contribution, why is it always shitty strawmen and misrepresentations to attack the messenger while ignoring the substance?

my point here is clear, and i would challenge you to try and make an actual argument against it for once: if someone, after all those years of the democratic establishment promising change, but effectively doing almost nothing for the working class, still believe THIS time they will absolutely deliver (even to such a degree that it'll be more than what's 'deserved' after being exploited like no other working class in america's peer countries, and despite biden's long record clearly suggesting he won't), you are just making excuses / lying for someone you should be well aware mistreats you, to protect them from deserved criticism - it's textbook battered wife syndrome.

Oh, I'm totally with you that Biden wont transform the United States into a social democratic country with a solid social safety net. If that's your standard and anything short of that doesnt count, then Biden will indeed be a wasted president. But that's a ridiculous and unrealistic standard. There very much are smaller but tangible improvements for working-class Americans that could realistically come out of a Biden presidency, thundercock already elaborated on them.

For me, the question is not if Biden would pass some small-scale pro-working-class policies, the question is if the benefits of those policies would offset the other stuff his victory in November would bring, like a softer stance on China, more pro-globalization policies, more open borders, climate policies which kill blue-collar jobs and cause a surge in consumer prices which disproportionately hurts low-income people, etc. pp.

look back just one page and you will see what triggered this conversation in the first place: i posted a tweet suggesting that neither establishment will help the working class in a meaningful way, but the democrats are trying to appear woke and pretending to care - to which battered wife's reaction was the claim that biden will not only do more than trump, but even more than the working class deserves.

that's the claim i challenged by giving examples of what actual, meaningful help could look like (things that tcock had to admit will not be happening, even though no reasonable person would characterise them as 'more than the working class deserve' - thus proving him wrong unless he can come up with other policies biden will implement that will fit that description - you're welcome to help him out here btw, make the case for biden to prove me wrong - red buttons.jpg).
you trying to ignore the original premise and attribute the outrageous claim to me, trying to attack me for calling out such obvious bs, is nothing but pure bias and dishonesty.

i'd fully agree with a claim that democrats are still marginally better on worker protection and helping the average american in general, sure - but any truly transformative change is prevented by their own dependence on the donor class - that's why when it really mattered, biden has ALWAYS sided with his donors over his voters. political records don't care about your campaign promises.

Joe thinks pillorying the police and throwing in with BLM is a winning play