Quote (duffman316 @ Oct 19 2020 11:18am)

I'll leave the medical classifications of mental illnesses to bazis people. I'm talking plain old fashion deviance which is generally tolerated but it's deviance nonetheless and normal people notice these things.

It ranges from people who colour their hair blue or green to people engage in self mutilation. You don't need a medical degree to look at dennis avner and know something is off in his head.

Quote (Thor123422 @ Oct 19 2020 12:12pm)

The law explicitly did account for malice though. The law you're referencing that got JP famous was a law that said if you repeatedly and intentionally called somebody by the wrong pronoun it could be considered hostility. It in no way was going to outlaw accidental misuses, or genuine mistakes. The example given for the law was that if your boss insisted on using the wrong pronoun over and over after multiple corrections, (the same way if your boss called you Nancy over and over again to demean you) it would be considered if there was a claim for hostility in the workplace.

I don't mean trans people don't have it easier, I mean they SHOULD have it easier because we've been over this several times now as a society. We should get better at correcting ourselves as time goes on.

Quote (excellence @ Oct 19 2020 10:59am)

ayup, there have been good developments on this front but still quite a ways to go

Quote (thesnipa @ Oct 19 2020 12:25pm)

the issue with language policing is that its far too subjective. look at how JP's stance on pronouns changed over time for an example, he started off saying if people asked him he's call them whatever they want. then as his fame grew people started to try and set him up, so he softened his stance. in any case, even if it was far more well written as a law than i remember i dont think we should be writing laws like that. societal pressure is always more effective anyways.

while i agree progress is great, it seems to have been fast enough in this case that its making some gay people feel bad.

Quote (thesnipa @ Oct 20 2020 01:26am)

i find pronoun identity important, but as im in the NORMAL binary, i dont need to explain mine. i couldnt, but im 6'3" tall and 240 lbs, i dont think anyone would mistake me for a woman or feel i should explain my male identity. again, i could.

if you're trans and you pass then no worries, no one should mistake you. if you're trans and you pass, but still want some odd pronoun, u have to tell people and may need to explain a bit. if u have some wonky pronoun, expect people to use it or "they" not to offend you before u even tell them, and refuse to explain anything. then you're a drama queen looking for attention. this tendency is likely driven by how hard ur life is, how hard its been to be mentally ill in your life and not have the body u want. still tho, fuck you. its fine to be damaged, just be realistic.

the trans civil rights movement has been a joke compared to black, gay, latino, jewish, etc etc etc. its not an easy road for anyone to be a minority group, but holy shit has it been a breeze for trans people comparatively. so much so that ive heard perhaps a half dozen gay men unhappy with the gap between their struggle and their complaints.

Quote (Thor123422 @ Oct 19 2020 12:30pm)

The issue with JP is he is a grifter. He got famous lieing about a law that he was explicitly corrected on multiple times, but he was making too much money to actually correct himself.

So your position would be consistent with getting rid of virtually all harassment laws then? Since your boss demeaning you by calling you "Nancy boy" at every meeting is something that societal pressure should fix? It genuinely seems like this would follow from your line of reasoning, so if that isn't true I'd like to know where you want the line to be.

If gay people feel bad about it, that's their problem honestly. Yeah, it sucks that they had to fight for way longer to get rights, and it sucks for black people that they had it worse and had to fight even longer than that, and it sucks for women that they were subjugated for thousands of years in almost every society, but "I had it worse so slow down making it better" isn't a good reason to slow down. It's a cause for celebration that we, as a society, are getting better at acknowledging and fixing our flaws and we should be happy at that.

Quote (thesnipa @ Oct 19 2020 12:42pm)

overall im not a fan of hate speech laws or even hate crime laws. "x did y because z was a ______" is something i think is outdated in modern america. look where it's applied, murders, heinous assaults, etc. crimes already carrying decades of prison time and makes them high profile socially. in theory they're ok, not great but ok, in practice theyre largely ineffectual and subjectively applied to only majority crimes against the minority.

harassment is harassment, no need for pronoun harassment if harassment already exists, along the same lines as above, it makes 1 crime 2. if you're a trans person down here in reality you're going to have a hard time finding an entirely accepting work environment, its just the 2020 world we live in. there will be a few bullies in any place other than the huffpost op ed writers room.

you know how it feels to order food, sit down, and then someone else orders and gets their first? gay/black/women/jews ordered 2,000 years ago, sat until their great great great great great great great great great great great grand children got the meal they ordered, then watched trans people get their food in 3 minutes.

Quote (proccy @ Oct 15 2020 05:15pm)

my views have hardly changed at all. if anything i'm a classic liberal. However, the "left wing" has become so radicalized in the past 5 years that I've been rejected by my own parties

Quote (MizzouFTW @ 19 Oct 2020 20:27)

Actually you can pinpoint the time that both parties became radicalized and thats about the time the tea party emerged.

Quote (Thor123422 @ Oct 19 2020 01:10pm)

I think we're getting closer to where hate speech is outdated, but I don't think we're there yet, especially with the modern rise of white nationalism. Maybe when we're 10 years out from the last event like Charlottesville.

Harassment isn't harassment though, since if you have a defense of "this person is female, and I called them a 'her', which means female" then you will probably get off regardless of malice or hostility because that's gonna ring with the right jury. You know the law isn't as simple as X is X.

Yeah, it sucks if you're waiting and somebody else has to wait less time, but that's not a reason to delay somebody's food. I acknowledge that it's annoying, but, like, so what? You have the right to be annoyed, but regardless you're kind of being shitty to keep others from it because you're annoyed.