Nixons succes, Bush his failure, integrity of the WHO, potential for loopholes and abuse of monopolies..

But we're not gonna get there in this topic.. Argued against enough bullshit for today.


We don't actually need the export to the US, it's but a tiny fraction of what is produced. I'd be more worried if I'd be an American.


It's the 3rd time this tariff happens, hence the names of those presidents.

This post was edited by Knoppie on Mar 9 2018 02:29pm

Dude...be serious. You and I both know that this won't happen overnight.
I hope you realize that this will be good for the US as well.

Yeah, lots of folks, presidents included use the give it time to work argument. Like Obama and healthcare...unfortunately he was lying.
Let's stay on the subject, by the time the next president, whoever it is, is in office, you will have the proof, that this WAS a good move. Hell, it CAN'T be a bad move.
If someone doesn't start to deal with the trade deficit with China, you won't have a job to even worry about.

Especially with Trump, ya can't just read his tweets and go by that. There are others in the govt. that "help Trump" to realize his goals, like this tariff thing.
He initially said everyone pays, then he tried to use it to manipulate the Nafta talks...etc. Then his advisors got him to allow exemptions, to unbind it from the Nafta talks etc.

Unlike Obamacare which was a bad idea, and couldn't work because no funds were appropriated to make it work...this will work. We know from history it will work.
I don't remember who was president when they more or less gave away the steel industry, but that was not a smart move. (Looks like it was Jimmy Carter)



I know I may have made it SEEM like I was JUST thinking of Pittsburgh, in a few of my previous posts, but realize that because I am from Pittsburgh, I do have a sort of insider view to what we LOST when we gave up the steel industry.
I mean it was all over every form of media available for years and years. You couldn't not see the damage that was caused when we let the steel industry leave the US.
Well the "big steel" not the today steel industry.


/e



Just about steel. At least in this topic. Well, aluminum as well.

This post was edited by Ghot on Mar 9 2018 02:23pm

i didnt say this would happen over night, i said specifically that even IF it did work, it would take longer than the prospective life of the tariff.

but no, i do not think it is good for us, nor do i think it will have anywhere near the effect on chinese trade that you think it will. nor do i think the trade deficit is as big of an issue as you do. and this will cost us more jobs in the short run and long run, it will devastate more homes in the long run.

im not sure how you dont realize i dont agree with even a single one of your talking points. they are all archaic, anti free trade, and incorrect.

artificially "reviving" an industry to "save" a couple of hundred thousand jobs for a few years while endangering MILLIONS that depend on largely unrestricted trade of steel and aluminium, increasing costs for consumers, and additionally jeopardising the jobs affected by the inevitable retaliatory tariffs from trade partners that were hit unfairly by this idiotic, ill-advised, poorly implemented, and untargeted escalation... but hey, your emperor can do no wrong so obviously you have to pretend you don't have the slightest clue about the downsides of unilaterally imposing global tariffs on certain goods... cute.

Are you referring to jobs abroad? Otherwise, why would more than 1% of Americans lose their job from these tariffs?

endanger =/= lose, increasing the number. I think the global tariff versus a tariff towards subsidized China steel is important though, China is already not complying to WHO trade rules by flushing the markets with subsidized steel, making local industries having to dismantle factories if these subsidies remain unchecked. This is where the wealthy countries can create monopolies.

/e Yet if it's just China doing it, it's still somewhat easy to control. With actually tariffs, on China.

This post was edited by Knoppie on Mar 9 2018 03:17pm

I don't think some folks want to admit that the "doom" the are foretelling is pretty much hogwash.

I can't see why anyone would lose jobs because of this, and I can easily see that it will create 100's of thousands of jobs, hell maybe even millions.
People say they don't like how much welfare costs the US. That's a good point. I bet all those out of work coal miner families would just love it if we needed to reopen all the coal mines. Same with the huge amount of trucking and other forms of shipping inside the US that would benefit from this. The coke producing factories as well.
Plus all the other types of ores that are required by a flourishing steel industry.

And the most important of all is that we would be buying American product, in America once again.
When the middle east, let's say, wants to buy 100 Boeing 747's, they will also be buying US steel and US aluminum. Which would be much better for the US than us selling 100 747's made out of foreign steel and aluminum.

These tariffs are not the end result, they are just one of the directions the US needs to go, to get back to where we used to be.
Computer parts are another example, we used to make them here, then we gave away that industry as well.

Sure we gained less factories, cleaner air etc. But with our shipping infrastructure as awesome as it is today, we can now put factories away from major city centers. We have much better anti-pollution technologies than we used to have 50 years ago. We have learned lessons on how to manufacture things without destroying the land.

I think one of the main reasons, the govt. decided to allow exemptions is to keep a tight handle on the price of things like steel and aluminum, while bringing back tons of industries, and employing tons of people.
To me, this looks like a win-win-win situation.

This post was edited by Ghot on Mar 9 2018 03:22pm

the price of steel rising.

There... I bolded the part you neglected to read.

Losing tens of thousands of auto manufacturing jobs and a couple billion in losses hardly smacks of "win."