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Mar 13 2012 01:25pm
As a rule of thumb, Israel can exist on only one edge of the triangle: democracy, current borders, and Jewish state. They have to drop one of the three and keep the other two.
Right now democracy is what is being dropped. If they withdraw from West Bank, they will become a democracy but lose current borders. If they stay in the West bank and become a democracy by giving the Palestinians citizenship and political rights, they will seize to become a Jewish state.
This is the golden rule right now, always true until a fundamental change of conditions happens.
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Mar 13 2012 01:29pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Mar 13 2012 06:06pm)

No democracy can exist when all men aren't equal before the law, when a nation calls itself a "Jewish Nation".


Israeli - Palestinians has equal rights. Their vote worth just like my, they have the same duties and the same privileges.
The reason we like to call Israel "the home of the Jewish nation" is simple. Its an announcement to every Jew out their that he has a home.
And last time i checked, people ordered their flight ticket to Israel and not to the "Jewish nation".


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Mar 13 2012 01:44pm
Quote (WhiteSouned @ Mar 13 2012 01:29pm)
Israeli - Palestinians has equal rights. Their vote worth just like my, they have the same duties and the same privileges.
The reason we like to call Israel "the home of the Jewish nation" is simple. Its an announcement to every Jew out their that he has a home.
And last time i checked, people ordered their flight ticket to Israel and not to the "Jewish nation".


Really, "Israel", or ישראל? Because that's a Jewish Nation name the last time I checked.
But no, Palestinians don't have equal rights.




You're not fooling anyone. Nobody buys that bullcrap. Everyone and their mother already knows how oppressed the Palestinians are, living in the worlds largest concentration camp, occupied by Israel.
We know about your military police, your checkpoints, your blockades, your bulldozing of houses and your settlements and wage slavery.

Even your local boy ex-mod over there doesn't try to pretend that Palestinians have it 'equal', nobody in their right mind (which you lack) would try to argue that:

Quote (Many_Names @ Mar 13 2012 07:45am)
There is apartheid in Israel there was an occupied terrority which was occupied before hand to Egypt which is Gaza.
and West Bank which is the problematic area right now.


Israel controls the lives of over five million Palestinians, most of whom have neither voting rights, political rights nor civil rights. Israel has separate sets of laws, rights and opportunities for Israeli Jews and non-Jews. Palestinians in the Occupied Territories are denied basic civil rights. Palestinians citizens of Israel are subject to segregation and discrimination, with central provisions of Israel’s Basic Law explicitly denying equal status to non-Jews.

For example, Arabs aren't even allowed to run a political party in Israel unless they first admit and consent to Jewish Supremacy. And thats in your effin' constitution. Jews are free to immigrate to Israel and unify families- Arabs have no chance at all and are barred the borders.
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Mar 13 2012 01:49pm
Did i talked about Palestinians ?
I talked about Israeli-Palestinians holding blue ID.

Check points, military , blockades are all techniques to stop those who wish to harm.
Putting all the blame on Israel just ain't gonna work here mate.
Both sides are crazy, both sides needs to sit down and talk and both sides needs to know how to compromise.
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Mar 13 2012 02:14pm
Quote (WhiteSouned @ Mar 13 2012 01:49pm)
Did i talked about Palestinians ?
I talked about Israeli-Palestinians holding blue ID.

Check points, military , blockades are all techniques to stop those who wish to harm.
Putting all the blame on Israel just ain't gonna work here mate.
Both sides are crazy, both sides needs to sit down and talk and both sides needs to know how to compromise.


Why yes, both sides are crazy, probably equally so. Unfortunately, they are not equally matched sides, and one side holds all the power and the other has fiddlesticks.
So yes, all the blame is to Israel, because they're the only ones who can act to change it. Palestinians can't "peace process" their way out of a concentration camp singlehandedly.

But once again- No. Israel is not a democracy with equal rights for all. It is a theocracy, with jewish laws for the jewish population, and no parity for anyone else.
Arabs are not given equal protection under the law in Israel, and to even be allowed to wield any political clout at all (which is token at that), they must first bow down and consent to Jewish Supremacy
That is not equal civil rights.
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Mar 13 2012 02:41pm
Quote (Algorhythm @ Mar 13 2012 02:25pm)
As a rule of thumb, Israel can exist on only one edge of the triangle: democracy, current borders, and Jewish state. They have to drop one of the three and keep the other two.
Right now democracy is what is being dropped. If they withdraw from West Bank, they will become a democracy but lose current borders. If they stay in the West bank and become a democracy by giving the Palestinians citizenship and political rights, they will seize to become a Jewish state.
This is the golden rule right now, always true until a fundamental change of conditions happens.


Excellent analysis.
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Mar 13 2012 02:44pm
Quote (Santara @ Mar 13 2012 11:37am)
You heard it here first, folks. How exactly do you divorce "legislative process" from "government?"


LOL

yeah a republic is a form of government. Wtf.
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Mar 13 2012 02:54pm
Quote (RUSSiABANK @ Mar 13 2012 02:44pm)
LOL

yeah a republic is a form of government. Wtf.


No, it is not. Its a structure of a government, not a class of government.
Educate yourselves some time.

Dictatorships, Oligarchies and Democracies are all forms of government. And they are all radically different. And they can all be republics.
I'll quote the Oxford English Dictionary if you guys really want to delve into semantics.

This post was edited by Goomshill on Mar 13 2012 02:55pm
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Mar 13 2012 04:19pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Mar 13 2012 08:14pm)
Why yes, both sides are crazy, probably equally so. Unfortunately, they are not equally matched sides, and one side holds all the power and the other has fiddlesticks.
So yes, all the blame is to Israel, because they're the only ones who can act to change it. Palestinians can't "peace process" their way out of a concentration camp singlehandedly.
.


All they need to do is stop fighting.
War will be answered by war and peace will be answered by peace.
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Mar 13 2012 04:21pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Mar 13 2012 01:50pm)
Santara, did you flunk political science or comp gov? =/
Now I never took any pol sci classes back in my day because I wouldn't go near that crap with a 10 ft pole, but its basic knowledge.

A republic is just a system of how the power is used and laws written- multiple entities representative of different interests writing the laws, but not all the people directly, and not necessarily representing the people
It is not mutually exclusive or overlapping with actual systems of governments- where they derive their power. Democracies have representation of all the people, oligarchies of a select few, dictatorships of a single one.

America is a democratic republic.
Just as easily, a republic could be non-democratic. For example, if only a hereditary line of elders would make all decisions without ever being elected- an oligarchal republic. Or if all senators were appointed by the emperor- a republican dictatorship.
You have some silly idea in your head that the only form of "democracy" is direct democracy (which does not exist).

Or for example, the Israeli Knesset. Where one race has a say, and the other is kept only as a token and prevented from having any political clout, with the majority of them imprisoned in the world's largest concentration camp during genocide.
In which case its a theocracy- a jewish state ruled by the jewish religion and jewish law.


Going by the same standards, I should be mocking you because democracies can be direct democracies or have only one party like in China.

Of course it's a democratic republic, but you assclowns on the left are always so desperate to throw around "democracy" due to the emotional nature attached to the word and leave out the republic part of it as if to minimize the importance of what actually protects minorities in America (the republic part) so I felt it necessary to point out your shortcoming. Plain and simple: just because Israel doesn't have the same system as us does not mean they are not also a "democracy."
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