What exactly did you post that proves what I said wrong? Nothing you responded actually counters anything. Real estate valuation is not taken by bankers at face value just because someone said so. Again, the bank does it's own due diligence to come to some number.

This is something that's becoming a real issue with commercial real estate. There are hundreds of billions of dollars in properties across the US currently underwater. On paper they are worth X, in fair value, something that someone would actually pay for it could be a 30, 40, 70% discount. For example:



https://www.cato.org/blog/san-francisco-government-failure-erases-billions-dollars-commercial-real-estate-valuations

Now if that real estate owner says hey I think this building is worth 100 million, based on XYZ, quoting a way higher number, that's not necessarily fraud. If he using the real estate as collateral to secure a loan he will naturally use the figure that is the highest.

Point is, these are extremely complex things to value and some of the arguments I seen in here are pretty dumb, like not understanding the difference between assessed value and market value.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Sep 29 2023 12:14pm

The basis for the mortgage crisis was actually ratings agencies giving garbage mortgage bonds AAA ratings despite having extremely low scored mortgages. It was fraudulent ratings that everybody was relying on to build and sell bonds. Without the ratings agencies willing to rubber stamp the ratings there's no incentive to give risky mortgages since you can't sell them. The funny thing is it is almost perfectly analgous to what Trump did on an individual level.

As for RFK, you're falling for that thing lots of grifters do. "I'm against the system" (you like him). In what way you are against the system? "Jews are basically running the system!" (You didn't hear this part).

Dude literally dogwhistles 1488 and talks about "them owning everything" conspiracies. Not hard to see what his actual thoughts on the subject are.

This post was edited by NetflixAdaptationWidow on Sep 29 2023 12:19pm

you said 'failing to do due dilligence isnt fraud because its the banks' job" which is a lie, thus my response. that directly refutes your post



actually it is fraud! https://www.hallandalelaw.com/appraisal-negligence-fraud-claims/
look at you, learning things today !

this is exactly what the judge ruled



This post was edited by gnarjay on Sep 29 2023 12:20pm

You cant have wildly overvalued AAA bonds as an issue if you dont already have poorly sold high risk mortgages to comprise them. the dominos were bad loans only sold due to adjustable rate structures, bad AAA bonds comprised of said junk loans, loans fail due to 300%+ increases under the adj rate, bonds fail, market fails. imo.

as to RFK, are you not aware he's in favor of a govt funded homebuying system with uncle sam as an automatic cosigner for qualifying people? he's not all talk, he has a plan. a plan that will never get passed as he proposes, but still. he actually debunks the antisemitism hogwash in his talks on this very topic, where he specifically notes who owns everything (blackrock, vanguard, etc) and notes they're not Jewish. that narrative came up because his "they own everything" line sounded analogous to right winged antisemites criticism of jewish bankers. idk why im bothering tbh lol, u wont believe me, u know what he really thinks.

Links an AD as proof. :/

Appraisals are usually done by the bank and is part of their due diligence. When you buy a house the bank will literally send an appraiser, someone that is in no way related to the buyer of the home to basically say this home is worth X, therefore the loan they are asking for is appropriate. Your link basically talks about fraudulent appraisals, which would fall on the independent appraiser not the loan seeker.

The 30k sqft apartment seems like fraud, but again, banks don't simply say okay we trust you bro this apartment is 30k just because you said so, they send people out to make sure the place is actually matched to what is disclosed.

The banks making the mortgages knew they would get bought up immediately even if they were poor quality. The reason they could get bought up is because the bank buying them knew they could package them and get an immediate AAA rating. The banks weren't lieing about the content of the loans when they sold them, and the packaging bank wasn't lieing about the contents when they submitted them for ratings. It was purely the ratings agency not even opening the box to see what was inside. Well, later during the crash it was also banks offloading them on customers, but that's a later issue.

If a bro constantly dogwhistles anti-semitism and conspiracy theories I'm not inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. It doesn't matter much though. He isn't a real contender and is only being pushed by Republicans to sew discontent among Dems.

The part you're dodging is it's fraud even if the bank doesn't send anybody.

Heh until last year I had another property that was assessed at about 1/3 the $/acre of the surrounding lots, when it was on a wooded hill and they were in swamps. Because nobody had been out to assess it in many years. Had a neighbor ask to buy a small sliver a few years ago to be large enough to zone a pole barn, but I knew this meant a reassessment which would triple the property taxes on it so I showed him how to get a rubber stamped variance from the country since they truly don't give a shit about a few square feet.

This post was edited by Goomshill on Sep 29 2023 12:39pm

i dont disagree on the banks, it could have easily been a bank by bank issue if they werent repackaged. that was gas on the fire and caused the crash. i just still think the bunk loans were the basis, a lack of due diligence there was the killer. and in small amounts it wouldnt have been an issue, banks would have just gotten houses for them to resell. but when its common practice and those shit loans make up a large amount of the market its game over.

as to the dog whistles i just think thats hogwash. u cant talk about institutions like blackrock or others buying up the american real estate market without sounding like an antisemite because "they own everything" has such a negative connotation. but its a real issue, and thats the only way to describe it. they are buying everything, they'll own america eventually.





This post was edited by thesnipa on Sep 29 2023 12:43pm