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#1771
Mar 23 2020 03:25pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Mar 23 2020 05:14pm)
As far as I can tell, the democrats were negotiating in good faith in the senate and the 5 days of talks produced the senate bill with all sorts of conditions and compromises directly related to the coronavirus. It was those negotiations that clarified the amount of money per person, amount per child, how many rounds of payments. They added in clauses to make sure it didn't phase in with rich people getting more than poor ones, and made sure it phased out from $75-99k income. And they added the conditions to the corporate bailout to say a $425k executive pay cap, no stock buybacks and must keep payroll intact.

We have to remember that this entire bill was an overtly socialist proposal to begin with, we had Andrew Yang saluting what was basically a month or two in universal basic income. The republicans were outflanking the democrats on the left. In anything but an extreme crisis, this bill was unthinkable. And they added in reasonable concessions to democrats on top of all that, stuff that really wasn't dealbreakers and had a lot of good sense behind it.

But then Nancy Pelosi showed up on capitol hill, axed the entire process and produced this ideological wishlist garbage that can serve no purpose but obstructionism.


Do you think it's possible Nancy and co. miscalculated in how much "weakness" they saw from the Republicans because they're in the hot seat and are finally willing to compromised in a crisis situation? An overreach after getting good things in the current bill?



Quote (Black XistenZ @ Mar 23 2020 05:20pm)
Yet Skinned et al. keep insisting on their "GOP bad, puppets of their corporate overlords, all they ever do is fuck over poor people - Dems good, always fighting for the little man" talking points.
And they call us cultists... :rolleyes:


I think that, unfortunately in the US, you can't expect any amount of good faith during election year.
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#1772
Mar 23 2020 03:28pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Mar 23 2020 04:20pm)
Yet Skinned et al. keep insisting on their "GOP bad, puppets of their corporate overlords, all they ever do is fuck over poor people - Dems good, always fighting for the little man" talking points.
And they call us cultists... :rolleyes:


But in fairness, the democratic senators sounded like they were willing to act in good faith and address the crisis responsibly up until the party leadership decided to jettison the relief effort out of cynical pragmatism.
And sadly, not a single senator bucked their party. Even bernie sanders who is official independent didn't even show up for the votes, without any good excuse (he went on a call with AOC/Omar/Tlaib instead, jfc)

we just went from a rosy picture of bipartisan cooperation into full blown partisan obstructionism, a turn made abruptly in a matter of hours. And it can only really be explained as Nancy Pelosi making the calculation that this crisis won't be bad enough to actually destroy the country, but that making it worse will hurt Trump more. The most dangerous form of brinksmanship
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#1773
Mar 23 2020 03:28pm
Quote (IceMage @ Mar 23 2020 02:22pm)
But pretending both parties are equally bad seems to help Republicans, because usually Democrats are better at governing.


I this these extraordinary circumstances supersede past precedent, personally. This is a major crisis facing the United States, and decisive action needs to be taken. Pelosi's attempt to circumvent McConnell's long-held desire to obstruct by throwing everything including the kitchen sink into a covid-19 relief bill is poor, partisan leadership.
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#1774
Mar 23 2020 03:30pm
How did Nancy Pelosi axe a senate bill from the house?
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#1775
Mar 23 2020 03:34pm
Quote (Handcuffs @ Mar 23 2020 05:28pm)
I this these extraordinary circumstances supersede past precedent, personally. This is a major crisis facing the United States, and decisive action needs to be taken. Pelosi's attempt to circumvent McConnell's long-held desire to obstruct by throwing everything including the kitchen sink into a covid-19 relief bill is poor, partisan leadership.


There's what has happened in the past. And there's what is happening now. We can acknowledge that Pelosi is erring, while acknowledging that in the past Republicans were the obstructors.
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#1776
Mar 23 2020 03:38pm
Quote (IceMage @ 23 Mar 2020 22:34)
There's what has happened in the past. And there's what is happening now. We can acknowledge that Pelosi is erring, while acknowledging that in the past Republicans were the obstructors.


Definitely. The lack of a social security net and a better healthcare system is largely on Republicans, and they deserve a fuckton of blame for it. But this is not the moment to play the blame game or engage in tactical partisan maneuvers. It's irresponsible to hold up the urgent relief without good reason, but that's exactly what the Democrats just did. And for that, they are the ones who deserve a fuckton of blame.
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#1777
Mar 23 2020 03:40pm
Quote (inkanddagger @ Mar 23 2020 02:30pm)
How did Nancy Pelosi axe a senate bill from the house?


Pelosi has been working with Schumer and has played an active role in the negotiations on the Senate bill, much to McConnell's ire. My understanding is that Pelosi has put pressure onto Republicans where essentially unless major concessions were to be made in the Senate's bill by Republicans to incorporate Democrat's desires, the Senate Dems would block the bill. Instead, and what has happened now, is that House Dems have drafted their own proposal.
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#1778
Mar 23 2020 03:41pm
Quote (IceMage @ Mar 23 2020 02:34pm)
There's what has happened in the past. And there's what is happening now. We can acknowledge that Pelosi is erring, while acknowledging that in the past Republicans were the obstructors.


I don't disagree with what you've said about this past. Black XistenZ shared my sentiments though:

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Mar 23 2020 02:38pm)
Definitely. The lack of a social security net and a better healthcare system is largely on Republicans, and they deserve a fuckton of blame for it. But this is not the moment to play the blame game or engage in tactical partisan maneuvers. It's irresponsible to hold up the urgent relief without good reason, but that's exactly what the Democrats just did. And for that, they are the ones who deserve a fuckton of blame.


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#1779
Mar 23 2020 03:42pm
Quote (inkanddagger @ Mar 23 2020 04:30pm)
How did Nancy Pelosi axe a senate bill from the house?


Shes the party leader. She literally showed up on capitol hill and told them what to do
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#1780
Mar 23 2020 03:43pm
Quote (Handcuffs @ Mar 23 2020 05:41pm)
I don't disagree with what you've said about this past. Black XistenZ shared my sentiments though:


I haven't followed the negotiations that closely, but I agree with the sentiments behind his post.
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