you are quite literally just regurgitating kremlin propaganda, like one of their state news hosts, lol.

no one except the russian government and its braindead propaganda victims even pretends those regions rightfully belong to russia, or that those referendums were even remotely legitimate.

This post was edited by fender on Jan 27 2023 10:49am

Muricaaaaa fuck yaaaa coming again to save the mothefuckin daayyyyy yaaaaa

careful now, Ukraine is both the most corrupt nation in all of Europe and a cesspool for politics, and also at the same time the last election was democratic and entirely fair so that negates the revolution being legit and these NAZIS FUCKING NAZIS took power from the rightful govt.

Which makes it all the more imperative to deny the most important #3 power as an ally to China.
Nothing we're doing in Ukraine is diminishing Russia's number of nuclear weapons, but its sure driving closer ties between Russia and China. Not to mention between India and {Russia/China} and Israel and {Russia/China} and South Africa and Hungary and Turkey and Thailand, Argentina, Malaysia, Indonesia, Mexico, etc etc. How does it serve our interests to engage in a mutual weakening with Russia and the US/EU while driving Russia and the unaligned world closer to China?

It really strikes me how much of both politics and geopolitics has become embracing talking points that don't even hold up to the slightest amount of logical scrutiny. I said a few times I get the whole george-floyd-autopsy vibe when we look at how the Ukrainian post-Maidan elections are "internationally recognized and legitimate" (by only western powers, unlike those before them) whereas the separatist referendums are illegitimate and 'unconstitutional', as if they hadn't just overthrown their constitutionalist government a few months prior. And if you point it out, you're a racist Russian propagandist, even as they ally with literal NAZIS FUCKING NAZIS

of course for fender that was the plan all along

This post was edited by Goomshill on Jan 27 2023 10:46am

This shit will ALWAYS, yes ALWAYS dodge when facing a good argument.

it's really difficult to keep up with all the mental gymnastics and double standards they introduce. the one constant is: there isn't a goon he won't shill for, be it rapists, racists, dictators... they all get the goon-shill treatment on jsp. he really chose his name wisely...

we beat the USSR by forcing them to militarize overly in their budget, starve their own citizens, and eventually cave. we need to do the same to russia, force them to break down again, this time far more, then buy up the weapons (rather than letting them slip off to warlords like post -USSR) and install over a slow process puppets. it really is that simple, that's the only answer. we cant make them a friend, we can't economically and slowly wait them out. we need to walk the knifes edge to their death without them hitting the red button on their deathbed.



your side has made a load bearing pillar of sand with that "democratically elected govt pre-maiden". Ukraine pre-revolution wasn't a sham election authoritarian pisspot, and at the same time they aren't objectively so democratic that we can take their results at face value in an election that ends 51%/49% for the ruling party to retain.

i havent and wouldnt say the right stole the 2014 election, but i also am not building my arguments on the fact that they won fair and square.

But again- why?
What did Barack Obama say to Mitt Romney in 2012? The 1980's called
That sort of zero sum thinking makes sense if we regard Russia as our geopolitical adversary. But that's China's role. Russia isn't threatening our hegemony and hasn't been since the collapse of the USSR, but China is eating our lunch. Again, I'm asking what we gain from Russia's loss. If we were talking about weakening China, it would make sense. But to Russia in 2023? Their loss isn't our gain.




What is my side here? I don't regard recognition of simple truths as needing a side. Ukraine pre-maidan was recognized by both east and west as being a sovereign, legitimate democracy. We could quibble over their failings just like we could over American democracy- and our 51%/49% elections- but what's clear enough is all the world powers regarded their elections as legitimate. That's not the case with post-maidan, where the NATO powers and UN vassal states call it legitimate when elections are held with banned opposition and half the country disenfranchised, but Russia clear doesn't agree. And likewise, Russian-administered referendums in the separatist regions are recognized by east but not west. This doesn't make one side legitimate and one illegitimate. What it means is that there was a legitimate democracy, and now there isn't, not on either side. They broke it, no backsies, no squirting milk back up the udder.

Almost forgot the LIES.