Medicalization of deviance is a super interesting topic, and a lot of it comes down to definitions. Basically the question is "when should we have medical intervention for somebody being different?"

In Western medicine it's a mental illness if if actively interferes with your life. I.e. the difference between depression and apathy is in depression the apathy gets so bad you stop seeking self care, or it costs you your job, or it damages your relationships, etc. etc.

A male person who feels stress because they feel like a woman, but can still engage in healthy behaviors probably doesn't have a mental illness. They may still feel better and have a higher quality of life by getting a surgical procedure, and getting the procedure may prevent the stress and anxiety from getting worse and later developing one. In both of those cases you would look at the life outcomes of people who have had the procedure and who haven't had the procedure, and determine if and for what groups the procedure is helpful.

So basically, not everybody who wants to switch has a mental illness, and even if they do that doesn't mean surgical intervention isn't a treatment for that mental illness.

I'm also unlikely to be mistaken. 220lb 6 foot male

The bold is exactly what I mean by having a neutral pronoun you can always use so you never mess up. Like somebody says "I'm an attack helicopter" and I can just be like "lol okay. Xe it is", or just if there's somebody I'm unsure about or can't remember, I can just default.

Yeah, if somebody is an attack helicopter they're being a drama queen. Those people are pretty few and far in between, and trans people are already a few and far between group, so it's kinda ridiculous that the conversation always defaults to that.

le attack helicopter is the biggest signal if there ever was one, that the only trans person they've ever met was them mistakenly identifying a guy in drag in 2002 at a ebgames as a trans person.

ayup, there have been good developments on this front but still quite a ways to go

why is it ridiculous when deadnaming or misgendering a trans person is an instant ban off Twitter?

we have a fringe group within a fringe group that has direct policy for them and active enforcement, whereas i can call a black person a cotton pickin niglet and get MAYBE a 1 day suspension, MAYBE.

and we have things like Canada's tribunal which got into it with Jordan Peterson. a guy i dont like much but was right imo in that instance.

this all speaks to my point, that trans people have had an insanely easy path to semi acceptance compared to blacks or gays. its been a damn cake walk by comparison, even more crazy when you consider blacks were just born with more pigment and gays happen to like the same sex. trans people are objectively more wierd, arguably have serious mental illness in need of treating by and large, and still have found an easier path into mainstream semi acceptance. semi acceptance is afterall the best minority groups can hope for. jews are the closest to full acceptance.



"NO THEY'RE NOT MENTALLY ILL. DONT SAY THAT, OMG DONT SAY THAT U BIGOT"

is fucking cancer to people with mental illness. it says dont u dare get labelled this, run from it at all costs.

next thing u know a bit of the weepeys turns into a shotgun in ur mouth.

admit what u are, admit what you're feeling, and seek help from someone qualitied. Boom, stigma solved.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Oct 19 2020 09:15am

I don't use twitter, and I genuinely think less of anybody who does. I do know that I see a lot of right wing shenanigans that go unpunished on twitter, so I've never been convinced there's a conservative genocide online.

Jordan Peterson lied his ass off to get conservative famous. Please link what you're meaning with "Canada's tribunal" so I can be sure I'm thinking of the same thing though.

I'm not convinced by "they had it easier" arguments. Shit is supposed to get easier. As we go along we're supposed to improve processes so just outcomes are easier. That's the point of changing the system in the first place. You agreed with me some months or maybe a year ago that it would be good if every time we realized a new group was oppressed we'd just, as a society, say "oh yeah, that's like the gay thing. Let's not be shitty to them".

I'll leave the medical classifications of mental illnesses to bazis people. I'm talking plain old fashion deviance which is generally tolerated but it's deviance nonetheless and normal people notice these things.

It ranges from people who colour their hair blue or green to people engage in self mutilation. You don't need a medical degree to look at dennis avner and know something is off in his head.



They got it so easy that they can beat up women inside the octogon while a crowd of liberals cheer on the sight of a man beating up a woman yet I still shave my beard when going to the airport to avoid getting pulled over by security 🤷‍♂️

This post was edited by duffman316 on Oct 19 2020 10:23am

JP had a simple point, no law should require someone use a person's preferred pronoun in the vague way the original law was written. it didnt account for malice, changing pronouns, and many other factors. even if it was unlikely to be applied, a bad law is a bad law.

after that i could care less about him, i recognize his simplistic advice to clean up small things in your life to improve in the long run is good advice. but theres a gap between how important his advice is and how important some see him. ive tangentially been aware of other things hes involved in, but genuinely do not care. his importance starts and stops with raising a yellow flag on canadian speech laws with regards to trans people.



ummmm wat. if blacks in the 1960s demanded not to be called the n word they'd have half wanting to lynch them and half doing nothing to stop it. if gays wanted to get married it was laughed off for decades, aids was called publicly gods wrath for being gay, etc etc.

trans people ask for anything and u have a bunch bowing down, a bunch standing by, and a bunch mildly to seriously upset. not an easy road, but come the fuck on. its a cake walk compared to black or gay struggles. attitudes like this "idk if it really is easier" is what turns off gays/blacks to the cause. it downplays their struggle in america which lasted centuries instead of a decade.

The law explicitly did account for malice though. The law you're referencing that got JP famous was a law that said if you repeatedly and intentionally called somebody by the wrong pronoun it could be considered hostility. It in no way was going to outlaw accidental misuses, or genuine mistakes. The example given for the law was that if your boss insisted on using the wrong pronoun over and over after multiple corrections, (the same way if your boss called you Nancy over and over again to demean you) it would be considered if there was a claim for hostility in the workplace.

I don't mean trans people don't have it easier, I mean they SHOULD have it easier because we've been over this several times now as a society. We should get better at correcting ourselves as time goes on.