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#171
Aug 31 2020 02:16pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Aug 31 2020 03:08pm)
This is really what it comes down to. "Mainstream left" in the United States is kind of meaningless since our center is the middle of the right.

Very basic things like nationalized healthcare and education are far-left in our system. Our "left wing" candidates somehow never want to raise taxes to the levels they were at before the last tax decrease. So we end up going 45% -> 35% -> 38% (Look HE'S SO LEFT WING!) -> 25% -> 28% (LOOK, HE'S SO LEFT WING!)



If we do it all the time it should be easy to understand what we mean then.


i have zero issues understanding what you mean. perhaps you can see how having to say "american left, which is really worldwide just right of center" comes off as pedantic?

we're talking about american politicians in america appealing to american voters. why does what they'd be in Europe matter at all? it's a tangential non-point. just semantics that serve no purpose to the conversation.

when someone says biden is a leftists they mean in america, you know that and they know that. adding in what they'd be in Europe doesnt mean anything. it's like if someone says "Cheryl Swoops is a hall of famer in the WNBA" and you respond "yeah but she couldnt score on Kobe". no shit.
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#172
Aug 31 2020 02:25pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Aug 31 2020 03:16pm)
i have zero issues understanding what you mean. perhaps you can see how having to say "american left, which is really worldwide just right of center" comes off as pedantic?

we're talking about american politicians in america appealing to american voters. why does what they'd be in Europe matter at all? it's a tangential non-point. just semantics that serve no purpose to the conversation.

when someone says biden is a leftists they mean in america, you know that and they know that. adding in what they'd be in Europe doesnt mean anything. it's like if someone says "Cheryl Swoops is a hall of famer in the WNBA" and you respond "yeah but she couldnt score on Kobe". no shit.


Yeah, he's "American left", but the entire political discourse in America covers such a tiny area that it doesn't really say much. There's very little difference between mainstream left and mainstream right in America because they're both comfortably situated in the same corner. When there's heavy disagreement between the mainstream left and mainstream right it's almost always about labels rather than real policy, it's Republicans blocking Obama nominees because he's Obama, not because they actually disagree with who he nominated. It's Republicans hating "Obamacare" because they called it "Obamacare" on the survey and loving "The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act" when that's on the survey. It's Republicans blocking Obamacare despite it originating from a conservative think-tank and championed by conservatives until the left said it was better than the system we have now.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Aug 31 2020 02:26pm
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#173
Aug 31 2020 02:42pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Aug 31 2020 01:16pm)
i have zero issues understanding what you mean. perhaps you can see how having to say "american left, which is really worldwide just right of center" comes off as pedantic?

we're talking about american politicians in america appealing to american voters. why does what they'd be in Europe matter at all? it's a tangential non-point. just semantics that serve no purpose to the conversation.

when someone says biden is a leftists they mean in america, you know that and they know that. adding in what they'd be in Europe doesnt mean anything. it's like if someone says "Cheryl Swoops is a hall of famer in the WNBA" and you respond "yeah but she couldnt score on Kobe". no shit.



We should simply refer to them as Democrats or Republicans, not “the left” and “the right” because those labels hardly fit at all. You wouldn’t call a neo Nazi in Afghanistan left wing simply because the Taliban is to the right of the Nazis. Don’t apply your bullshit standards here, either.

This post was edited by inkanddagger on Aug 31 2020 02:42pm
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#174
Aug 31 2020 02:50pm
Quote (thesnipa @ 31 Aug 2020 16:16)
i have zero issues understanding what you mean. perhaps you can see how having to say "american left, which is really worldwide just right of center" comes off as pedantic?

we're talking about american politicians in america appealing to american voters. why does what they'd be in Europe matter at all? it's a tangential non-point. just semantics that serve no purpose to the conversation.

when someone says biden is a leftists they mean in america, you know that and they know that. adding in what they'd be in Europe doesnt mean anything. it's like if someone says "Cheryl Swoops is a hall of famer in the WNBA" and you respond "yeah but she couldnt score on Kobe". no shit.



well they do chime in an awful lot. never crosses our mind to join the “my struggle” forums and yap about German politics with heinrich lmfao
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#175
Aug 31 2020 02:56pm
It matters what they would be in Europe because leftism is internationalist in nature, for the record.
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#176
Aug 31 2020 03:20pm
Biden might be very moderate or centrist or center-left or center-right or whatever you want to call it - but mostly on issues of taxation and corporate regulations. He is perfectly willing to stray far to the left on social and cultural issues, as well as on questions of big vs small government, federalism and devolution etc.

After Harris was announced as his VP pick, some pundit put it perfectly: "now, Wall Street got exactly the ticket they wanted". The interests of big business and big government are increasingly aligned; and corporate America is increasingly aligning itself with wokeness, LGBTQAIP* issues and anti-first amendment stances. They've always been very pro-globalization and pro-immigration anyway.

Therefore, it is not a contradiction for Biden to be center-right or even reactionary on economic issues and holding (or tacitly condoning) far-left positions on social and cultural issues. His corporate-friendly status quo politics on economic issues do not debunk the accusation that he's aligned with far-left cultural forces.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Aug 31 2020 03:21pm
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#177
Aug 31 2020 03:21pm
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#178
Aug 31 2020 03:25pm
Quote (fender @ 31 Aug 2020 23:21)
https://i.imgur.com/yCMv9lw.mp4


Yup, that's really bad. Trump's supporters should not be attacking bystanders or protesters, not even with non-lethal weapons like paintballs and pepper spray.
I've been lambasting Biden for not denouncing antifa violence, and I'll be consistent and do the same with Trump: he absolutely should call on his supporters to cut this crap. :angry: -_-
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#179
Aug 31 2020 03:34pm
Quote (inkanddagger @ Aug 31 2020 12:33pm)
Let’s get some facts in this thread.

Earlier in the day at the Clackamas mall parking lot (serving as a staging grounds for the white supremacist groups) the Portland Tribune interviewed Chandler Pappas.

Armed with a paintball gun, Pappas said "I came here ready for war" and warned a counter-protester "I'll drop you on your fucking head."

https://pamplinmedia.com/pt/9-news/478372-386668-man-killed-at-portland-protest-linked-to-trump-cruise-in-

These Patriot Prayer members came in and there were a lot of accounts of them using paintballs and tear gas on protesters. Here’s a photo of Pappas and his deceased associate when the tribune interviewed them:

https://twitter.com/PDXzane/status/1299850435071627264/photo/2

Between then and the shooting, there was a lot of violence initiated by the Proud Boys and Patriot Prayer members, however before all of this Patriot Prayer members were told not to bring any guns to this event. Instead they brought tear gas, mace, paintballs, and trucks to ram protesters.

MAGA Truck doing drive bys with paintball guns:

https://twitter.com/TheRealCoryElia/status/1299910101684244480

Black car trying to run over protestors:

https://twitter.com/Johnnthelefty/status/1299920356585517056

Black MAGA truck intentionally runs into protestors:

https://twitter.com/TheRealCoryElia/status/1299899574228856834

MAGA driving trucks through sidewalks assaulting people with mace:

https://twitter.com/TheRealCoryElia/status/1299908378810957825

Around 8:45pm Pappas associate is shot:

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1299932147973677057?s=20

In the past few days two BLM protesters have been shot and killed by Pro Trump supporters, so there is a very real possibility the person believed their life was in danger.

So, during an evening where Alt-Right mobs had been committing drive-by assaults with paint ball guns/pepper spray while running over protesters and pedestrians, a lone Right Winger took it upon himself to aggressively approach a protester, pull a weapon (in this case Bear Spray) and fire the spray, but was shot by the victim(s) in retaliation. The victim/shooter may have been the skateboarder shown in the video.

Almost immediately after, protest medics came on to the scene. The last thing this White Nationalist saw was Boyne Sierra, an african american rendering care trying to save him:

https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2020/08/photos-show-frantic-but-futile-attempts-to-save-victim-of-shooting-near-portland-protests.html

Boyne Sierra says that she was struck with a baton when the police arrived.

"I was one of two medics on scene when the man who died last night was shot. I barely had time to begin an examination before the cops pushed and baton-ed me off of his body..."

https://twitter.com/BoyneSierra/status/1300130924147781633?s=20

Boyne Sierra has since removed all her internet accounts, from presumed backlash from the media attention.

This was the scene captured by Nathan Howard after police secured the scene:

https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/police-arrive-to-treat-a-man-who-was-shot-near-a-pro-trump-news-photo/1228264135?adppopup=true&uiloc=thumbnail_more_from_this_event_adp&uiloc=thumbnail_more_from_this_event_adp&uiloc=thumbnail_more_from_this_event_adp

Racist cops let one of their own white nationalists die because they couldn’t let a black medic help.



Let’s stop squabbling about what is left and what is right and get back to discussing how the right wing are unhinged fucking animals.

This post was edited by inkanddagger on Aug 31 2020 03:39pm
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#180
Aug 31 2020 03:56pm
Quote (inkanddagger @ 31 Aug 2020 23:34)
Let’s stop squabbling about what is left and what is right and get back to discussing how the right wing are unhinged fucking animals.


... he says in a thread about the the shooting of a Trump supporter by some unhinged lefty activist.
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