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Aug 26 2020 11:27am
Quote (thundercock @ Aug 26 2020 12:15pm)
So I'm reading that the guy who had the gun and killed 2 people wasn't allowed to own the gun and isn't a resident...

Pro tip: Don't voluntarily join a riot with a gun, that's a recipe for disaster.


You don't have to own a gun to legally carry it though.
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Aug 26 2020 11:30am
Quote (Santara @ Aug 26 2020 12:27pm)
You don't have to own a gun to legally carry it though.


You do have to be 18 to carry it in Wisconsin.
These are all mostly irrelevant, much lower counts compared to the laughably inapplicable first degree murder charge the liberal DA just threw at him
malice aforethought = being chased by people armed with guns while you run towards police
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Aug 26 2020 11:32am
Quote (thundercock @ Aug 26 2020 01:26pm)
I don't think that's the case at all. Most revolutions are incredibly violent (American Revolution, French Revolution, Arab Spring, etc.) This is why you should never let things fester because if things turn violent, you might get some really nasty consequences (Iranian Revolution). This is why I'm a supporter of incremental progress and accelerating when necessary. It's a national security issue.


In a country of 340 million we can count unjustified police shootings of blacks on our fingers. Hardly comparable to the Arab spring where swaths of ethnic minorities were mistreated. Hardly comparable the pretty basic human rights violations and blatant inequality of some of the previous revolutions.

e. incremental change here is police body cameras and accountability for wrongs. Not temper tantrums worth hundreds of millions and charging cops with murder regardless of legal definitions.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Aug 26 2020 11:36am
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Aug 26 2020 11:33am
Quote (Santara @ Aug 26 2020 10:27am)
You don't have to own a gun to legally carry it though.


Depends on the state. It seems like he's an out of state minor so this just seems like extremely poor judgment on his part. I think it's a beautiful thing when people are armed during a peaceful protest. That clearly wasn't the case here.
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Aug 26 2020 11:35am
Quote (Thor123422 @ Aug 26 2020 01:15pm)
Target: Why would I care? This doesn't affect my bottom line.
Rioters: Goodbye stores
Target: Hey, Congressman who I fund. You need to do something about this racial injustice thing, because they're gonna keep burning my stores.
Congressman: We are now holding the police accountable for abuse and are addressing racial injustice!


At least that's the idea. We'll see if it happens. The alternative is

Congressman: See! The blacks are rioting! They need to be put down!

*Even more stores burn*

Both of these are obviously extreme, but you get the idea. The real response will be somewhere in the middle, and the response we've seen so far is to cave on symbolism but not actual policy.


Target: "Mostly peaceful protestors keep burning down our stores. Thank goodness insurance came through, let's try to squeeze another target in safe suburban community 'a' instead."

Ten years later Democrats are crying about food deserts.

---

We need to address the underlying issue of poverty and crime in black communities. That's fundamentally the problem. Public sector unions and accountability are oxymorons, so there's work to be done, but the racial component has little to do with police and everything to do with their socio-economic circumstance.
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Aug 26 2020 11:40am
Don Lemon accidentally has a moment of clarity about defunding the police

https://thepostmillennial.com/watch-don-lemon-tells-rioters-not-to-riot-or-defund-the-police
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Aug 26 2020 11:42am
Quote (ofthevoid @ Aug 26 2020 12:22pm)
Forcing outcomes through violence, theft & intimidation is a shitty way for good change to happen. That's more how the mob operates.The biggest shifts happened when people like MLK or Ghandi peacefully mobilized the masses and won souls over because the bystander saw how one side was pacifist and fighting for a good while the other wasn't. Here we don't have pacifism, we have people committing violence, stealing, destroying property based on narratives that are built on half truths.


The narrative of peaceful protest being successful is itself a half-truth. Yes, many leaders were non-violent, but other leaders weren't, and both played important parts. The final push for civil rights may well have never happened without the violent followups to MLK's marches.

The bus boycott got black people the right to sit in the front of the bus on paper, but it resulted in a violent backlash that resulted in them sitting in the back of the bus for their own safety and new laws that barred interactions between races, so effectively there wasn't a real material change in circumstance.

The real story is more complicated than "nonviolence is good and effective, and violence is bad and ineffective".

Quote (bogie160 @ Aug 26 2020 12:35pm)
Target: "Mostly peaceful protestors keep burning down our stores. Thank goodness insurance came through, let's try to squeeze another target in safe suburban community 'a' instead."

Ten years later Democrats are crying about food deserts.
---
We need to address the underlying issue of poverty and crime in black communities. That's fundamentally the problem. Public sector unions and accountability are oxymorons, so there's work to be done, but the racial component has little to do with police and everything to do with their socio-economic circumstance.


It is impossible to separate police from race and socioeconomic circumstance.

The policies that resulted in worse socio-economic circumstance were enforced by the police as a direct continuation of the abuses that the police perpetrated on the civil rights marches and enforcement of Jim Crow.

Law enforcement is not something you can separate from the law, and socioeconomic circumstance is not something you can separate from laws.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Aug 26 2020 11:45am
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Aug 26 2020 11:43am
Quote (ofthevoid @ Aug 26 2020 10:32am)
In a country of 340 million we can count unjustified police shootings of blacks on our fingers. Hardly comparable to the Arab spring where swaths of ethnic minorities were mistreated. Hardly comparable the pretty basic human rights violations and blatant inequality of some of the previous revolutions.

e. incremental change here is police body cameras and accountability for wrongs. Not temper tantrums worth hundreds of millions and charging cops with murder regardless of legal definitions.


If you think this is "just about unjustified police shootings" then you aren't paying attention. I'm not trying to COMPARE injustice, I'm just pointing out that change is often violent and this rosy picture of people peacefully marching and enacting massive change is extraordinarily rare.

I 100% agree with you on accountability for wrongs and body cameras. There is still A LOT of resistance to that. Obviously, the most egregious death is Breonna Taylor and there is STILL no accountability. There's quite a bit of work to do still.
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Aug 26 2020 11:51am
Quote (Goomshill @ Aug 26 2020 01:30pm)
You do have to be 18 to carry it in Wisconsin.
These are all mostly irrelevant, much lower counts compared to the laughably inapplicable first degree murder charge the liberal DA just threw at him
malice aforethought = being chased by people armed with guns while you run towards police


He was clearly acting in self-defense in the shots that were filmed.
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Aug 26 2020 11:53am
Quote (Skinned @ Aug 26 2020 10:51am)
He was clearly acting in self-defense in the shots that were filmed.


Just like American patriot and hero George Zimmerman.
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