I'd say the start of brain activity... or since that's probably impractical to detect, the first heartbeat... since that's about the same time.

Though I suspect this will be a social issue that will be solved by technology before society reaches a consensus and resolves it.
I can see that happening one of two ways:
1) The ability to mature a fetus in an artificial incubation starting at any stage of development. This could lead to traditional abortion being made illegal since it would no longer be about "her body", as the child would be viable outside the womb.
2) Nanotechnology as a perfect and passive form of birth control, preventing any unwanted pregnancies in the first place.

I don't think women should be entitled to their own wages either. That is really what ruined the family in the first place.

That'd be a step in the right direction, but we should probably just outlaw woman labor all together.

Your baby. Your decision. Freedom > all.

A good start for the Right would to be to ban the 19th Amendment. It would be right up their alley of suppressing votes

Only voters should be white males who own a little land.

I'm usually in favor of equality, but I fear you may be right on that. Things have gone too far, we need white guys who work hard to set things straight.

Except when it comes to soft drinks, cigarettes, business or anything else that offends liberal sensibilities.

This post was edited by IceMage on Oct 8 2014 05:17am

What are you talking about with the soft drinks and cigarettes thing? And you are one of those tools that doesn't think business needs some laws and rules now?

Should I expect a Ron Paul avatar soon?

Bloomberg is the only guy who ban soft drinks. Bloomberg was a Republican as long as he was a Democrat and he is neither now. He is definitely not a liberal....not really a conservative either, he's a Bloomberg. I wish that tired strawman would just get put away though.

As for cigarettes, culture is just moving away from that. It is local governments that put forward smoking bans not "big gubbmint". My city has a conservative character, Republicans tend to win every election, religion is very strong here, and we have smoking bans. Claiming that smoking bans in cities are liberal ideas is just idiotic.

Now if you want to rattle your sabre against things like rural electrification, standards in the food and drug industries, and making health care available to as many people as possible, then please do so, but leave the soft drink cigarette arguments somewhere else. Take it to the Reddit Men's Rights thread.

I like most libertarian ideas, but the country is so far left that small government is impossible to implement.

The whole cigarette/soft drink thing is the result of a particular ideology, which most liberals have. It's the ideology that basically says we know better than you do. Liberals are just as authoritarian as Republicans, if not more so. Anytime a liberal says anything about freedom, I know they're full of shit. They believe in a particular set of freedoms for a particular set of groups.

I generally take issue with the government taking vast amounts of capital and spending it inefficiently on helping the poor man. Social Darwinism is long overdue.

So you're a proponent of abolishing the state and dissolving the social contract to return to a state of nature that is pre-rights?

I didn't take you for such an anarchist. Sometimes I feel like that too man. Anything to get people out of traffic jams and actually live their lives in a meaningful way.

But lets be clear: social Darwinism doesn't involve a state picking winners and losers, which is what I suspect you really want.

This post was edited by Skinned on Oct 8 2014 06:25am