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May 19 2024 06:02pm
Quote (x_h @ May 19 2024 06:04am)
Yes, and proof that Odysseus is held captive by the nymph Calypso on her island, Ogygia is in the Odyssey.

We don't prove things are true by using an old book that says they are true. The bible at best is full of anecdotes and archetypal stores. The bible is not a form of proof for god.


the bible is proof of god, its the one you serve.
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May 19 2024 06:06pm
Quote (SwamiVivekananda @ Apr 5 2024 04:44pm)
For most western Abrahamic religions this is the case because people only begin to contemplate "What is God" when they are on their death bed. So instead of knowing God while they lived and understanding death is life they "believe" in God so that God will do something for them which in the case you mentioned is, "Get me into heaven" or some "better place then this". God "do something for me I am scared" and you are all powerful. In reality God isn't your servant and God doesn't really "act" people "act" on God. Big difference imo.

Religion and belief in god are two different things. Coping with death is just one aspect of many.
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May 19 2024 09:23pm
Quote (lodd222 @ May 19 2024 09:02pm)
the bible is proof of god, its the one you serve.


How is the bible proof of god?


The bible assumes the existence of god, it doesn't prove it.

In science and philosophy, proof often requires empirical evidence, logical consistency, and the ability to withstand scrutiny and falsification. The Bible, as a collection of religious and moral teachings, does not conform to these standards of proof.
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May 20 2024 01:07am
Quote (x_h @ May 19 2024 11:04pm)
Yes, and proof that Odysseus is held captive by the nymph Calypso on her island, Ogygia is in the Odyssey.

We don't prove things are true by using an old book that says they are true. The bible at best is full of anecdotes and archetypal stores. The bible is not a form of proof for god.


Why not? The Grand Canyon could have only been formed by the Great Flood and there's only one recorded place of such an event.

You really want physical and tangible proof? Book a Flight to Israel and travel to Jerusalem. Travel to modern day Bethlehem. Go to Museums where they have the original transcripts. Are you willing to do all of that?
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May 20 2024 03:05am
Quote (CPK001 @ May 20 2024 01:07am)
Why not? The Grand Canyon could have only been formed by the Great Flood and there's only one recorded place of such an event.

You really want physical and tangible proof? Book a Flight to Israel and travel to Jerusalem. Travel to modern day Bethlehem. Go to Museums where they have the original transcripts. Are you willing to do all of that?


amen the bible was written by eyewitnesses to Jesus

just like history books, the events happened and were recorded... if you doubt the bible you have to doubt all books, history books, basically every book can one day 2000 years from now be viewed as not proof of anything and be claimed that none of it happened

This post was edited by caswallen on May 20 2024 03:06am
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May 20 2024 06:38am
Quote (caswallen @ May 20 2024 06:05am)
amen the bible was written by eyewitnesses to Jesus

just like history books, the events happened and were recorded... if you doubt the bible you have to doubt all books, history books, basically every book can one day 2000 years from now be viewed as not proof of anything and be claimed that none of it happened


There is no way to verify the events really happened.

There are no extra-biblical accounts of Jesus from the time of his death or life, the nearest writing is somewhere between 80-200 years after his death--according to scholars.

And yes, we don't just believe something is true because it's in a book from 2000 years ago.

Quote (CPK001 @ May 20 2024 04:07am)
You really want physical and tangible proof? Book a Flight to Israel and travel to Jerusalem. Travel to modern day Bethlehem. Go to Museums where they have the original transcripts. Are you willing to do all of that?


Transcripts would not be physical and tangible proof.

A transcript proves nothing.

Quote (CPK001 @ May 20 2024 04:07am)
Why not? The Grand Canyon could have only been formed by the Great Flood and there's only one recorded place of such an event.


The Grand Canyon exposes nearly 2 billion years of Earth's geological history. The rock layers visible in the canyon walls are sedimentary, including limestone, sandstone, and shale.

These layers were deposited over millions of years in various environments, such as ancient seas, deserts, and swamps, before being uplifted and exposed by erosion.

We can see distinct different time periods in the grand canyon. It's formation happened over millions of years.

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Radiometric dating of rocks and minerals within the canyon has provided consistent ages for the different layers, ranging from about 2 billion years old at the bottom to about 270 million years old at the top.


These dates align with the geological time scale and indicate that the formation of the Grand Canyon involved processes occurring over a vast span of time, not a brief, catastrophic event.

Fossils found in the canyon’s rock layers represent a progression of life forms over hundreds of millions of years. This gradual change in fossil assemblages supports a long history of sedimentation rather than deposition by a single flood.


The grand canyon formed many millions of years before men wrote a book about a man named Jesus. Maybe Jesus existed, maybe he didn't. No one really knows, but we do know that the flood in the bible can't account for the fossils for the grand canyon because there are fossils from hundreds of millions of years ago, and radiometric dating tells us that at the lowest parts is billions of years old, to the top being hundreds of millions of years old. The canyon formed long before the bible says the flood happened.

Do you deny the paleontology and geology is correct?

This post was edited by x_h on May 20 2024 07:05am
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May 20 2024 07:20am
Quote (CPK001 @ May 20 2024 04:07am)
Why not? The Grand Canyon could have only been formed by the Great Flood and there's only one recorded place of such an event.




The dimensions given in the Bible for the Ark are approximately 300 cubits long, 50 cubits wide, and 30 cubits high (about 450 feet by 75 feet by 45 feet). For the time period in which Noah would have lived, building such a large wooden vessel would have posed significant engineering challenges. Ancient shipbuilders did not have the technology or materials to construct such a massive wooden boat that could remain structurally sound.

Lack of Evidence: There is no concrete archaeological evidence supporting the existence of Noah's Ark as described in the Bible. Despite numerous expeditions and claims of discoveries, no verifiable remains of the Ark have been found.

Flood Myths: Many cultures have flood myths, and some scholars believe these stories may have been inspired by real, localized flooding events in ancient times, such as the flooding of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers or the Black Sea deluge hypothesis.

There is no proof that the boat existed, and it was only recently that we've had the technology to build a boat the size the Ark was supposed to be.

All evidence points towards the flood in the bible being a myth, and not a real thing that happened. Possibly there was a flood, but there is no evidence that a dude and his family built a huge boat and then somehow kept pairs of animals on the boat.
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May 20 2024 09:28pm
Quote (x_h @ May 20 2024 10:38pm)
There is no way to verify the events really happened.

There are no extra-biblical accounts of Jesus from the time of his death or life, the nearest writing is somewhere between 80-200 years after his death--according to scholars.

And yes, we don't just believe something is true because it's in a book from 2000 years ago.



Transcripts would not be physical and tangible proof.

A transcript proves nothing.



The Grand Canyon exposes nearly 2 billion years of Earth's geological history. The rock layers visible in the canyon walls are sedimentary, including limestone, sandstone, and shale.

These layers were deposited over millions of years in various environments, such as ancient seas, deserts, and swamps, before being uplifted and exposed by erosion.

We can see distinct different time periods in the grand canyon. It's formation happened over millions of years.



The grand canyon formed many millions of years before men wrote a book about a man named Jesus. Maybe Jesus existed, maybe he didn't. No one really knows, but we do know that the flood in the bible can't account for the fossils for the grand canyon because there are fossils from hundreds of millions of years ago, and radiometric dating tells us that at the lowest parts is billions of years old, to the top being hundreds of millions of years old. The canyon formed long before the bible says the flood happened.

Do you deny the paleontology and geology is correct?


So what I'm getting with this is that you're just going to say it's not evidence and you'll deny everything. You're saying that the Bible is untrustworthy.

It just so happens that, over a decade ago, I wrote about this very topic: Can you really trust the Bible? https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=66318140&f=125

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1. The facts about The Bible

The first thing I must ask you is this: Would you be prepared to trust The Bible if the evidence were there? Carefully ponder this question before you move on.

Don't trust The Bible.

Many people don't trust The Bible due to various reasons. One of them being that it is a very old book. Something written 2000 years ago isn't reliable to today's standards.
Perhaps people back then weren't that smart, they didn't have the internet, wikipedia or any of that kind of stuff. That could be further from the truth.

The time of the New Testament was a time of literacy, everybody wrote stuff down. Everybody wanted to learn. To sum it all up in an age, I'd call it the Age of Education.
Basically, education back then meant a big deal. Being a Rabbi or teacher back then was a big deal. That is what Jesus was, a Rabbi, a teacher. In a nutshell, everything we know today has all come from what they all learned all those years ago.

Conspiracy Theory.
"Most conspiracy theories don't make sense nor withstand any scrutiny. They usually involve operations so immense that it's basically impossible for them to be kept secret, and all the proof given by conspiracy theorists usually have a very simple explanation (usually much simpler than the explanation given by the theorists)."
Conspiracy Theories generally have very simple explanations. That means the story isn't very detailed. Now when we look at The Bible, the stories are very detailed, look at the smaller detail.


If you cannot trust the Bible then you cannot trust any other historical text. The book of Luke was written only a few decades after the events and they are based on eye-witness accounts.

If you want to go down that path, Muhammad was born at 570 CE, many centuries after the events took place. What other possible newfound evidence would have popped up after many centuries?

So I must ask, how is the Bible untrustworthy when you are not willing to go and do any investigation?
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May 25 2024 07:53am
Quote (lodd222 @ May 19 2024 08:02pm)
the bible is proof of god, its the one you serve.


Burn the Bible and have it rewritten, different every single time. Go burn all the science books and rewrite them.. 90% of the time it’s the same
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May 26 2024 07:33am
The Bible was written by men and is a fairytale, it’s full of hypocritical beliefs and bullshit. Hope this helps you all. 💕
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