Quote (ofthevoid @ Sep 29 2023 11:58am)

That's not really how it works with banks though. Banks do due diligence using a number of factors to determine collateral value. That's why appraisals are something that are almost always used when someone buys a house and the bank is issuing a 300k loan. They want to make sure the place (the collateral) is actually worth the loan amount and they don't get left holding the bag on a dump in case of default.
If the bank is dumb enough to have shitty risk policies and eager bankers to make commissions by issuing credit to someone they shouldn't or without doing adequate due diligence, that's on them really.
Banks also apply haircuts to valuation. Even something like US treasuries which are considered risk-free will get like a 5% haircut. Harder to price luxury real estate collateral would probably get a massive haircut.

Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Sep 29 2023 01:14pm)

"He should have checked harder" is not a defense for fraud when you are supplying knowingly false information.

Quote (ofthevoid @ Sep 29 2023 12:22pm)

If I'm going to buy a car and its a 2002 rusted out Buick and guy tells me he wants 20k for it, tells me he thinks it's fair and then I pay it.

Quote (ofthevoid @ Sep 29 2023 01:22pm)

If I'm going to buy a car and its a 2002 rusted out Buick and guy tells me he wants 20k for it, tells me he thinks it's fair and then I pay it. Then I later find out it's worth 600 bucks. I'm the dumbass in this scenario for not doing the work to understand what something is worth.

Failure to do proper due diligence can't be offloaded as fraud. Certainly not how bank managers take it when a banker fucks up, usually those guys get canned. I don't know the details of this case but if the bankers got bamboozled and somehow accepted a valuation that was multiples off of what it should have been, that's on them. I mean these are sophisticated entities, and these are large multi million dollar loans.

Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Sep 29 2023 12:08pm)

Yeah like if people like Goom would say something like, yeah he committed obvious and blatant fraud, but so does every bank and every big new york business so this is clearly just politically motivated, I'd agree with that.

It's just really pathetic that they won't even accept the blatant fraud that he admitted to in his own court filings.

Quote (ofthevoid @ Sep 29 2023 10:22am)

Failure to do proper due diligence can't be offloaded as fraud.

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A failure to perform due diligence could result in criminal penalties under Sarbanes-Oxley if a CEO does not perform due diligence and certifies misleading corporate financial statements as accurate.

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Quote (thesnipa @ Sep 29 2023 12:49pm)

it certainly seems fraudulent, and i'd agree with that statement too, i just would add that i dont think the govt should intervene in these situations.

rich man wants cash, bank has cash, rich man offers collateral, up to the bank to vet that collateral to weigh it both against the cash offered and risk of return.

on a micro scale this is someone walking into a pawn shop and leaving a Pokemon Charizard card with them for 1,000$ cash that is in a phony looking graded case and a certificate of authenticity written in crayon.

the bank knew he was good for the cash, because they obviously vetted the values. they didnt care about the fraud in question, clearly.

Quote (gnarjay @ Sep 29 2023 12:55pm)

who told you this? you're 100% wrong

Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Sep 29 2023 12:55pm)

This is more or less what caused the 2008 financial crash. Fraud tends to make everybody get high on the hog until it all comes crashing down and destroys the entire world economy.