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Aug 2 2023 12:04pm
Quote (El1te @ Aug 2 2023 02:00pm)
It's not a conspiracy in this case, its just economics - people in the ghetto have no interest in buying fresh foods so there is no justification for stocking them


I appreciate your willingness to consider what I wrote.
You're one of the more level headed people on this forum.

You're right but I also believe based on history, there is a past conditioning that altered the desires of those impoverished.

How much land one owned was another historical factor. One of my best friends families owned a sizeable priece of land that they used to farm. So they always had fresh or preserved fresh foods.
edit- they were poor and scraped by.
edit2- they also didnt live in a desert or tundra.

Inner city people can't really farm on this scale and thus, the conjestion of people leads to buying at a super market.

This post was edited by Mondain on Aug 2 2023 12:06pm
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Aug 2 2023 12:05pm
Quote (MildSambal @ Aug 2 2023 10:47am)
Which also results in a lot of edible food being thrown into a dumpster that ends up getting eaten by desperate homeless people out of the dumpster anyways or just wasted.


Or just feeding the raccoon and bear population!

The economically correct answer to this problem is marking down expired foods that are still edible. Some things go rotten and then have to be thrown out, but not everything. Then its just a matter of how much you mark it down.
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Aug 2 2023 12:07pm
Quote (Mondain @ Aug 2 2023 11:04am)
I appreciate your willingness to consider what I wrote.
You're one of the more level headed people on this forum.

You're right but I also believe based on history, that is a past conditioning that altered the desires of those impoverished.

How much land one owned was another historical factor. One of my best friends families owned a sizeable priece of land that they used to farm. So they always had fresh or preserved fresh foods.

Inner city people can't really farm on this scale and thus, the conjestion of people leads to buying at a super market.


Absolutely, you make a lot of good points and it is absolutely true that there has been many a government conspiracy to harm black people in America (I mean the Democrat party is still working overtime to keep them down)

I think the culture has definitely been conditioned against living a more ordered lifestyle where fresh food is prepared, which is desirable and natural. Other impoverished ethnic groups still prepare their own healthy foods, for example, even though they are poor. But for the ghetto black community its mostly downstream from cultural destruction at the hands of the Democratic party over a few hundred years
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Aug 2 2023 02:40pm
Quote (Bazi @ Aug 2 2023 06:46pm)
Skimmed through but I’m sure I missed a lot of important posts so pardon if this point has already been mentioned

There is no doubt that given our access to wealth, the standards for our foods should increase to 1st world peers and we are clearly lagging

There are a couple main problems I can immediately think of that contribute to this but there are numerous issues we have

Food industry preventing necessary changes. How long was the low fat high sugar diet paraded, with absolutely full knowledge this was backwards. Several decades? Even now health literacy even amongst educated individuals remains poor, never the less lower socioeconomic tiers. Slowly changing but emphasis on slowly. Those naked brand juices that are so popular have 50+ g of sugar a pop. American college of pediatrics has placed juice in the same category as soda, albeit a couple decades late. High sugar is just one example, there are numerous carcinogens in our foods/drinks. In all of our lifetimes colon cancer screening guidelines will change to 40 and probably 35 because (from currently 45 and 50 a few years back) because of the alarming increase in colon cancer rates

Culture and accountability. Speaking broadly and generally, our culture is one to deflect accountability. Common across all socioeconomic tiers. We are stubborn to the core. It’s certainly complicated because billions upon billions of dollars over 40 years have gone into brainwashing a society, how do you really undo this? In medschool we ran a homeless shelter food services on Thursdays. The hits were pizza, lasagna. There was one time we made a health conscious chili , organic ground beef and cheese etc. the dude bringing the cheese separately was delayed so we got there with just the chili minus cheese. People actually preferred not to eat it and even when the cheese came word got out and they went to other shelters for their meal. I think we served less than 20 people and normally we would serve hundreds. So much time wasted that week ha. Because of shelter rules we were forced to throw away the food that was not eaten. Buckets of good quality chili in the garbage. We sneaked some to take back but had to throw away a lot.

This is just an anecdotal story but the food situation is layered with complexities and there isn’t just one problem


I would like to add that an obesogenic infrastructure adds to the problem.
One explanatory model could be, the social acceptance of overweight following the lack of necessity to transport by bike/on foot (or at all), which makes people less self conscious and thus easier seduced to eat unhealthy. But I'm sure if you think about it a little longer you'll find a lot of interaction between different factors. The promotion by the industries is surely a big one, although other 1st world countries have seen the same to some extend and I feel it cannot fully explain the effect we see.

The food service was an awesome thing of you to do in medschool :) If people just leave because the food isn't to their liking perhaps they're not hungry enough :D

Are you keen on going into gastroenterology?
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Aug 2 2023 02:48pm
Quote (Leeevee @ Aug 2 2023 03:40pm)
I would like to add that an obesogenic infrastructure adds to the problem.
One explanatory model could be, the social acceptance of overweight following the lack of necessity to transport by bike/on foot (or at all), which makes people less self conscious and thus easier seduced to eat unhealthy. But I'm sure if you think about it a little longer you'll find a lot of interaction between different factors. The promotion by the industries is surely a big one, although other 1st world countries have seen the same to some extend and I feel it cannot fully explain the effect we see.

The food service was an awesome thing of you to do in medschool :) If people just leave because the food isn't to their liking perhaps they're not hungry enough :D

Are you keen on going into gastroenterology?


Biking /walking isn’t realistic for the majority of jobs but we are certainly too quick to accept obese as normal

I’ve been an attending now for 4 years lol. IM/ICU
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Aug 2 2023 06:31pm
Convenience seems like a big factor, since most households need 2 people working to be comfortable nowadays there is much more incentive to buy easy to make processed garbage then there was before the economy adjusted to women entering the workforce.

The people I know who I consider to have extremely healthy diets all spend a considerable portion of their weekends doing food prep for the rest of the week. It isn't impossible to do and it is not considerably more expensive than convenience food (though that is changing IMO) but it does take time and effort. They also tend to have less physically demanding jobs, generally office work or managerial positions. I've worked labor jobs and office jobs and I was much more willing to cook after work when sitting in a nice office all day vs deshingling a roof lol.
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Aug 3 2023 07:07am
Quote (El1te @ Aug 2 2023 12:54pm)
I mean his general point about food transport & preventing spoilage is absolutely correct when we are talking about remote communities that are undeveloped without arable land, and just food distribution in general. But in a developed city itself of course there are other many factors to consider


which is why in my first reply i asked how he explains food differences in a ghetto and suburb that are 10 miles apart, where transportation isnt a factor. that's called removing a variable.

i'm not confused or uninformed about anything he's bringing up, he's just saying incorrect things like "it has nothing to do with wealth". dont build a house on sand.
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Aug 3 2023 08:28am

Healthy food costs more. There's your difference.
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Aug 3 2023 11:48am
Quote (Ghot @ Aug 3 2023 04:28pm)
Healthy food costs more. There's your difference.


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Aug 3 2023 12:00pm
Quote (babun1024 @ Aug 3 2023 01:48pm)


I'll take the bowl of berries
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