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#16871
Jan 25 2018 06:07pm
Quote (Skinned @ Jan 25 2018 10:03pm)
Your moral feelings precede all rights of self-determination and freedom, says the Christian ;)


It's the opposite of self determination, it's the determination of an unborn baby's life which the mother decides is 'her body' aka her property, denying the baby's personhood in the process. You shouldn't be able to have the freedom and choice to kill people outside the womb so be consistent and either admit that it should also apply within the womb or a baby growing in the womb is not a person.

This post was edited by dro94 on Jan 25 2018 06:08pm
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#16872
Jan 25 2018 06:15pm
Quote (dro94 @ Jan 25 2018 06:07pm)
It's the opposite of self determination, it's the determination of an unborn baby's life which the mother decides is 'her body' aka her property, denying the baby's personhood in the process. You shouldn't be able to have the freedom and choice to kill people outside the womb so be consistent and either admit that it should also apply within the womb or a baby growing in the womb is not a person.


People like to identify a fetus as a seperate entity. They die when removed. Like i get the "her body her property" argument is equally flawed but come on... A first trimester baby cant think, act on their own, survive, etc. They can't even process food. Their skin cant properly filter sunlight, etc. They need an artificial womb, they are not a complete human.

And plz nobody come back with the "then people in comas aren't people" bs.
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#16873
Jan 25 2018 06:19pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Jan 26 2018 01:15am)
People like to identify a fetus as a seperate entity. They die when removed. Like i get the "her body her property" argument is equally flawed but come on... A first trimester baby cant think, act on their own, survive, etc. They can't even process food. Their skin cant properly filter sunlight, etc. They need an artificial womb, they are not a complete human.

And plz nobody come back with the "then people in comas aren't people" bs.


I don't think reliance on an external source to survive is relevant in defining personhood, when we're born we still rely on someone to feed us or we'll die. It's easy to think of ways to dehumanise the most vulnerable humans, your argument can just as easily be applied to the disabled.
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#16874
Jan 25 2018 06:20pm


Quote
A journalist announced last week that he will publish a photograph of then-Illinois Sen. Barack Obama (D) and Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan that he took in 2005 at a Congressional Black Caucus meeting, but did not make public because he believed it would have “made a difference” to Obama’s political future.
The photographer, Askia Muhammad, told the Trice Edney News Wire that he “gave the picture up at the time and basically swore secrecy.”
“But after the nomination was secured and all the way up until the inauguration; then for eight years after he was President, it was kept under cover,” Muhammad said.
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#16875
Jan 25 2018 06:31pm

Quote (dro94 @ 26 Jan 2018 00:07)
It's the opposite of self determination, it's the determination of an unborn baby's life which the mother decides is 'her body' aka her property, denying the baby's personhood in the process. You shouldn't be able to have the freedom and choice to kill people outside the womb so be consistent and either admit that it should also apply within the womb or a baby growing in the womb is not a person.


An argument irrelevant to personhood that I have heard made is that the womb belongs to the woman. It should be her choice what she wants living in her body.
I don't agree with it but I can see the point that's being made.
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#16876
Jan 25 2018 06:42pm


I think we should just table the abortion issue until we know when the fetus fist says: "I"
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#16877
Jan 25 2018 06:53pm
Quote (Ghot @ 26 Jan 2018 00:42)
I think we should just table the abortion issue until we know when the fetus fist says: "I"


I think that if you don't have anything not entirely stupid to say you should just not bother posting.
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#16878
Jan 25 2018 06:59pm
Quote (EndlessSky @ 25 Jan 2018 21:11)
Ill trust the father of the universe over a marxist shill putting words in our mouths, thanks


At least Skinned exists. Probably makes his opinion more valid than that of your mythical sky-daddy.
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#16879
Jan 25 2018 07:02pm

It's a valid point. We've been arguing about abortion for decades, and skipping over the important question the entire time.
Once the fetus says: "I", killing it is murder, by our own definition of murder.

Just because the medical world has not found out WHEN the fetus says "I", doesn't mean we should just ignore this oversight.

Humans have always been very good at ignoring things when it doesn't suit them.
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#16880
Jan 25 2018 07:34pm










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