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Mar 17 2015 05:50pm
Quote (Santara @ Mar 17 2015 05:16pm)
You misunderstand me. The legal minimum wage is BELOW the poverty level right now. If setting minimum wages is about fairness to workers, why are they always set BELOW the poverty line? If Joe McDonald's deserves an "honest day's wage for an honest day's labor," why can I not consider his wage dishonest? How is it defensible intellectually to keep him in poverty if your argument for a minimum wage were really about getting a person his due? So when I ask:



...I want to know why you allow people to be kept in poverty. Until very recently (the $15/hr push), there has never been any attempt to use the minimum wage to pull people out of poverty. The simple fact of the matter is that Democrats aren't interested in lifting people out of poverty, they're interested in keeping themselves relevant by providing just enough of the public's money to the people that need them to steal it for them.[/QUOTE]



Robin Hood robbin da hood

This post was edited by thesnipa on Mar 17 2015 05:50pm
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Mar 17 2015 05:58pm
Quote (Santara @ 17 Mar 2015 18:16)
You misunderstand me. The legal minimum wage is BELOW the poverty level right now. If setting minimum wages is about fairness to workers, why are they always set BELOW the poverty line? If Joe McDonald's deserves an "honest day's wage for an honest day's labor," why can I not consider his wage dishonest? How is it defensible intellectually to keep him in poverty if your argument for a minimum wage were really about getting a person his due? So when I ask:

...I want to know why you allow people to be kept in poverty. Until very recently (the $15/hr push), there has never been any attempt to use the minimum wage to pull people out of poverty. The simple fact of the matter is that Democrats aren't interested in lifting people out of poverty, they're interested in keeping themselves relevant by providing just enough of the public's money to the people that need them to steal it for them.


You can ask this with a straight face? and what do you think the reaction would be if the Democrats tried to raise the minimum wage Bolded check your history of the GOP. and their repeated blocking of attempts of raising the minimum wage. What was the reaction this time?This try at raising the minimum wage is by far not the first time It's been attempted, It's been met with resistance by the GOP every time

This wage is honest in that it is not a glass ceiling but a safety net, it protects the very people that you claim it holds down I say it protects them from unscrupulous employers who would undervalue their worth. There have been too many times in history when employers have had free rein and history shows what happens when that is allowed. The wages are lowered to the lowest possible amount working conditions decline until deadly workers concerns are ignored.

So how can you dare suggest to submit the poor working class and poverty level, to the whims of big business. Why on earth would you think that they would get even nearly as close to as fair as a wage as the minimum wage is now. Can you honestly say that from the business owners perspective the only smart thing to do would be to offer the lowest wages that the market would bear? and given the employment market and the number of people out of work you could ask for pretty low wages, especially when every other business is doing the same.
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Mar 17 2015 08:02pm
Quote (Valhalls_Sun @ Mar 17 2015 06:58pm)
You can ask this with a straight face? and what do you think the reaction would be if the Democrats tried to raise the minimum wage Bolded check your history of the GOP. and their repeated blocking of attempts of raising the minimum wage. What was the reaction this time?This try at raising the minimum wage is by far not the first time It's been attempted, It's been met with resistance by the GOP every time

This wage is honest in that it is not a glass ceiling but a safety net, it protects the very people that you claim it holds down I say it protects them from unscrupulous employers who would undervalue their worth. There have been too many times in history when employers have had free rein and history shows what happens when that is allowed. The wages are lowered to the lowest possible amount working conditions decline until deadly workers concerns are ignored.

So how can you dare suggest to submit the poor working class and poverty level, to the whims of big business. Why on earth would you think that they would get even nearly as close to as fair as a wage as the minimum wage is now. Can you honestly say that from the business owners perspective the only smart thing to do would be to offer the lowest wages that the market would bear? and given the employment market and the number of people out of work you could ask for pretty low wages, especially when every other business is doing the same.


Do rich people shop at Walmart?

Do rich people eat fast food?

Who do you think consumes the most minimum wage produced goods and services?

Does this concern you?
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Mar 17 2015 08:48pm
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Mar 17 2015 10:03pm
Quote (2sexy4u @ Mar 17 2015 09:48pm)


A global resource boom funded by a rapidly expanding China.
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Mar 17 2015 10:06pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Mar 18 2015 12:03am)
A global resource boom funded by a rapidly expanding China.



need source, last time you posted wrong random facts and flee away when i exposed you.
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Mar 17 2015 10:07pm
Quote (Santara @ Mar 17 2015 05:16pm)
You misunderstand me. The legal minimum wage is BELOW the poverty level right now. If setting minimum wages is about fairness to workers, why are they always set BELOW the poverty line? If Joe McDonald's deserves an "honest day's wage for an honest day's labor," why can I not consider his wage dishonest? How is it defensible intellectually to keep him in poverty if your argument for a minimum wage were really about getting a person his due? So when I ask:



...I want to know why you allow people to be kept in poverty. Until very recently (the $15/hr push), there has never been any attempt to use the minimum wage to pull people out of poverty. The simple fact of the matter is that Democrats aren't interested in lifting people out of poverty, they're interested in keeping themselves relevant by providing just enough of the public's money to the people that need them to steal it for them.


That's because until recently the minimum wage was enough to raise a family on. We have presidents making speeches decades ago about not letting the minimum wage fall below that level, the idea that the minimum wage should be good enough to thrive is not a new idea.
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Mar 18 2015 03:00am
Quote (bogie160 @ 17 Mar 2015 21:02)
Do rich people shop at Walmart?

Do rich people eat fast food?

Who do you think consumes the most minimum wage produced goods and services?

Does this concern you?



middle income earners of course, the great consumers.

do you think low income and poverty level human beings can afford Walmart and Mcdonalds? please check your privilege sir.

look at the dollar store and the salvation army store, and Aldis and food wharehouse people living on low income can't afford to eat fast food what are you thinking?


Quote
Quote (bogie160 @ 17 Mar 2015 18:13)
It's a lot more complicated than that.

Raising the minimum wage increases the cost of hiring unskilled labor.

Companies can respond by switching to higher skilled labor to compensate. This is in part what you're trying to say by implying higher wage earners also win. That's to this extent true, but at the direct expense of low income workers.

Companies can also respond by reducing their demand for labor. The decrease in labor consumption represents rent lost to the economy. This is offset in part by the increase in wages among those employed, but demand isn't necessarily created (in net, remember that artificial floors create inefficiency loss), it's just some very roundabout redistribution.

Companies can then either raise prices or take a loss on profit, likely a mixture of both. A fall in profit reduces the firm's competitiveness, with profit below normal profit low wage firms will struggle to attract investment and weaker players may leave the market. This will balance out over time as the remaining players consolidate and raise prices.

Consider also that the customers paying for the price hikes are mostly poor, middle, and working class. Walmart doesn't cater to the rich, neither do fast food joints. Minimum wage increases are thereby a tax on the lower and middle class for a small segment of the lower middle class.

When you add in that a large contingent of minimum wage workers are not actually from impoverished households (most are not primary income earners) raising the minimum wage starts to look like a fringe issue that tries to achieve a pretty modest gain in a very inefficient way.



One thing I think you should look at this in fairness is the value that you are placing on labor as it factors into the entire gross profit margins that a company sets, I know margins are wildly different depending on the type of business and we can be speaking about a variety of business when we discuss the minimum wage. When you talk about manufacturing labor really won't have a very big voice by the time items hit retail and if a couple points increase in labor is all it takes to send a company south then it's in constant danger as is. As we all know the Commodities will have a direct affect on the price of the raw materials used in manufacturing and those are on a constant rollercoaster ride. Any good company will have cushion in it's gpm for these hitches. And the slow steady rise of the minimum wage is what I would be talking about not some crazy all or nothing doubling of it. Fast Food has crazy high margins and can easily squeak out higher wages.
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