Quote (Goomshill @ Feb 26 2022 06:13am)
NATO countries are definitely giving Putin his justification as they rush to funnel weapons into Ukraine to fight Russia.
Its such an awful half-measure. If Ukraine actually was folded into NATO we'd be obligated to defend it with our militaries and wage war against Russia. Instead, we're pussyfooting around and funneling lethal aid to Ukraine to kill Russian troops, which validates everything Russians feared about NATO expansion and opening a hostile military front in their back yard, and yet lets not kid ourselves, those weapons will be completely ineffective at propping up the Zelensky regime which is so obviously doomed right now. We're not going to save Ukraine, the most we can do is make Russia bleed the longer it stays. And what is that going to accomplish? Satisfy our spite? Nothing America and the EU has done over the past 8 years has been in the best interests of the Ukrainian people, that's for sure, and lets not pretend that this rush to recruit child soldiers to hurl molotovs at modern tanks is a humanitarian endeavor or that handing out stingers will save Ukrainian lives. Look at Afghanistan. At best you kill enough Russians to make an occupation unpalatable while inflicting 10-100x as many deaths on the Ukrainians, while completely destroying the country and its infrastructure. As opposed to... ceding Ukraine back to the Russian sphere of influence? Status quo circa 2013 as Yanukovych refused to sign the EU association agreement? What horror! Imagine how terrible the daily lives of Ukrainians would be under a Russian puppet state, as opposed to a CIA puppet state.
This is the worst possible course we're on right now. We're not holding Putin in check, we're driving a wedge into international relations that's forcing India, China and the UAE/KSA/mideast to side with Russia. We're escalating tensions with Russia without any tangible benefit. We won't stop the takeover of Ukraine, we will only worsen the humanitarian crisis and throw more fuel on the fire. What redeeming merit is there to our current strategy? Thumbing our nose at Putin isn't a reward unto itself. We don't gain when Russia loses.
What happens if Russia hits one of these weapon convoys with an airstrike like Israel loves to do to Iranian weapon shipments? Maybe even some western drivers and "special advisors" from the CIA get killed. Will we shoot back? Declare a no-fly zone? Some dogfights with Russian air force? Bring us even closer to nuclear annihilation than the cuban missile crisis as we skip right past a cold war and jump into a hot war? American has already blown its load on every possible non-military sanction and condemnation in its arsenal. All that's left is military conflict.
I don't think it's hyperbole to call you pro-Putin. You seem to agree with Putin's talking points on the justification for invading Ukraine. You also thought he was justified in interfering in US elections, and if I remember correctly, thought America shouldn't respond to that either.
It sort of reminds me how you spent 5 years being a Trumpist here, essentially always falling in line with the cult talking points, without explicitly identifying as a Trump supporter.
The pro-NATO expansionists were right, and the people on this forum who, years ago, were talking about why NATO doesn't need to exist anymore look pretty foolish. Russia is an aggressive, expansionist power, that needs to be checked by NATO.
Also... it's not status quo to go back to a Russian puppet, because things have happened between now and then. Allowing Putin to invade a neighbor and overthrow the democratically elected government without consequences is unacceptable, because despite your cynicism about the international order, it does matter that we have rules.
This post was edited by IceMage on Feb 26 2022 08:57am