The Mueller Report - Topic

Ghot

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Posts: 104,575

Joined: Apr 25 2006

Gold: 10,485.00

#1611

May 30 2019 08:09am

I think it's way past time for the Democrats to just admit that they had serious plans depending on Hillary being president. That when Hillary lost, they went off the deep end and started fabricating evidence and charges against Trump.
The way I see it, if they can't at minimum admit what they have actually done, then they probably shouldn't be in any office.

I mean now that Trump has released previously redacted information and evidence about how Russiagate started... they don't have much time, before the truth is going to come out anyway.

Ding-dong, the witch hunt's dead! Which old witch? The wicked witch hunt
Ding-dong, the wicked witch hunt's dead
Wake up, you sleepy head, rub your eyes, get out of bed
Wake up, the wicked witch hunt's dead!
It's gone where the goblins go below, below, below, yo ho
Let's open up and sing, and ring the bells out
Ding-dong! the merry-o sing it high, sing it low
Let them know the wicked witch hunt's dead
Ding-dong, the witch hunt's dead! Which old witch? The wicked witch hunt
Ding-dong, the wicked witch hunt's dead
Wake up, you sleepy head, rub your eyes, get out of bed
Wake up, the wicked witch hunt's dead!
It's gone where the goblins go below, below, below, yo ho
Let's open up and sing, and ring the bells out
Ding-dong! the merry-o sing it high, sing it low
Let them know the wicked witch hunt's dead

I can just see Americans dancing in the street, KNOWing that all is now well again, just because the wicked witch hunt's dead.

This post was edited by Ghot on May 30 2019 08:33am

Skinned

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#1612

May 30 2019 08:10am

Quote (bogie160 @ May 30 2019 09:03am)

Trump is a compulsive liar and narcissist who has lived a life that would make most of us blush.

But then again, Clinton is a well known rapist, and Hillary is every bit the narcissist (it was her turn!) who has spent a lifetime corrupting our political systems for personal profit. They're just better adjusted to social life.

I don't care about JFK's infidelity or Bill's crimes or Trump's narcissism. I care about trade, foreign policy, immigration, health-care, and the economy.

Democrats are objectively better by all those measurements and the data and history supports this.

Black XistenZ

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#1613

May 30 2019 08:11am

Quote (bogie160 @ 30 May 2019 14:48)

Mueller was asked specifically by Barr whether, if not for the OLC policy, he would have indicted the president.

Mueller repeatedly answered no. Was he just not sure whether he'd have indicted, after 2.5 years of investigating? Perhaps, but aside from seeming ludicrous from such an esteemed and seasoned prosecutor, it's beside the overarching point. "I can't definitively state the president did not commit a crime" is not "The President committed a crime." except in the eyes of Democratic fanatics who still can't come to grips with how badly they squandered the 2016 election.

I agree that it's not believable that after 2.5 years, a seasoned prosecutor like Mueller doesnt know whether he would have indicted if he could have.
What this means in my impression is that Mueller is trying to dodge giving a definitive answer. For both personal reasons (he doesnt want to get sucked into the partisan circus surrounding the Mueller probe), and probably because he considers the case to be a fringe case.

excellence

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#1614

May 30 2019 08:13am

Quote (IceMage @ 30 May 2019 09:11)

That's simply not true. You guys are trying to pretend that this isn't a unique circumstance that requires a prosecutor to ditch the normal rules. Mueller compiled a ton of evidence that Trump potentially obstructed justice, and he hinted in his report(and his remarks yesterday) that the only way to hold the president accountable is impeachment.

What do you think he should have done? Recommend charges against a sitting president, knowing that DOJ wouldn't indict?

It’s fortunate you ducked your own bet as you’d be using the crock line of “drumpf wasn’t proven innocent by mueller” as a reason not to pay up

Quote (Skinned @ 30 May 2019 07:55)

This isn't how Trump is being treated.

Now straw man arguments. This is turning into a logical fallacy day.

Per the former Special Counsel (now retired) -

Mueller: “innocent unless and until proven guilty.”
Mueller: “if we had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so”

it’s not a straw man when it’s set up in the same sequence.

do you have that report or file or dossier which exonerates you from not being exonerated of those actions yet? you’re not exonerated if you don’t have it, thus you’re not innocent and therefore, guilty

thesnipa

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#1615

May 30 2019 08:16am

Quote (Skinned @ May 30 2019 08:10am)

Democrats are objectively better by all those measurements and the data and history supports this.

I know this is true, because even without a study ever being posted that convinces me, I hear it 20 times a weak from leftists.

bogie160

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Gold: 226.37

#1616

May 30 2019 08:19am

Quote (Skinned @ May 30 2019 09:10am)

Democrats are objectively better by all those measurements and the data and history supports this.

What a loaded statement.

Beside the point, though, because I'm not here to defend traditional Republican policy.

Trump is a crude boor who struggles to explain relatively simple concepts, but he (or the people around him) have a far better understanding on how to combat China or how to navigate brinkmanship than say Obama, who's foreign policy was an abject failure that likes of which we rarely see.

This post was edited by bogie160 on May 30 2019 08:20am

fender

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#1617

May 30 2019 08:34am

Quote (Black XistenZ @ 30 May 2019 15:11)

Quote

"Charging the president with a crime was therefore not an option we could consider. The department’s written opinion explaining the policy makes several important points that further informed our handling of the obstruction investigation. Those points are summarized in our report, and I will describe two of them for you.

First, the opinion explicitly permits the investigation of a sitting president, because it is important to preserve evidence while memories are fresh and documents available. [...]

And second, the opinion says that the Constitution requires a process other than the criminal justice system to formally accuse a sitting president of wrongdoing. And beyond department policy, we were guided by principles of fairness. It would be unfair to potentially — it would be unfair to potentially accuse somebody of a crime when there can be no court resolution of the actual charge."

so by all means, keep deluding yourself all you want, but please don't act like your desire to exonerate trump from obstruction of justice was supported by either the report or mueller's statement. seriously, just read vol. II...

Ghot

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#1618

May 30 2019 08:35am

Quote (fender @ May 30 2019 10:34am)

you should definitely read volume two already. the only factor that makes this case 'fringe' is the office the suspect holds...

also, mueller specifically addresses that first 'point' you're trying to make in his statement:

so by all means, keep deluding yourself all you want, but please don't act like your desire to exonerate trump from obstruction of justice was supported by either the report or mueller's statement. seriously, just read vol. II...

Ding-dong, the witch hunt's dead! Which old witch? The wicked witch hunt
Ding-dong, the wicked witch hunt's dead
Wake up, you sleepy head, rub your eyes, get out of bed
Wake up, the wicked witch hunt's dead!
It's gone where the goblins go below, below, below, yo ho
Let's open up and sing, and ring the bells out
Ding-dong! the merry-o sing it high, sing it low
Let them know the wicked witch hunt's dead
Ding-dong, the witch hunt's dead! Which old witch? The wicked witch hunt
Ding-dong, the wicked witch hunt's dead
Wake up, you sleepy head, rub your eyes, get out of bed
Wake up, the wicked witch hunt's dead!
It's gone where the goblins go below, below, below, yo ho
Let's open up and sing, and ring the bells out
Ding-dong! the merry-o sing it high, sing it low
Let them know the wicked witch hunt's dead