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Dec 4 2017 05:06pm
Quote (Skinned @ Dec 4 2017 05:54pm)
You didn't address anything I said except one piece of hubris. My argument is on point and accurate. The argument for tax cuts is from feelings of fairness and morality, not pragmatism or outcome.

I addressed a couple things.

You are just weakly parroting 'spend and consume as fast as possible on anything = good, save and invest = bad, who cares about producing and accumulating anything real?' theory, (while misrepresenting what happens to money not paid in taxes, and making sweeping false claims about tax cuts not supported by most economic studies as i mentioned..) thats been contested and attacked and debated at length by other, legitimate economists for decades.
Conveniently you manage to leave this stuff out and declare it the one true god of economics.
we're not going to be able to sort this out for mankind here.

(especially when you are primarily concerned with alinskyite tactics rather than actual understanding)

This post was edited by cambovenzi on Dec 4 2017 05:10pm
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Dec 4 2017 05:18pm
Quote (cambovenzi @ 4 Dec 2017 19:06)
I addressed a couple things.

You are just weakly parroting 'spend and consume as fast as possible on anything = good, save and invest = bad, who cares about producing and accumulating anything real?' theory, (while misrepresenting what happens to money not paid in taxes, and making sweeping false claims about tax cuts not supported by most economic studies as i mentioned..) thats been contested and attacked and debated at length by other, legitimate economists for decades.
Conveniently you manage to leave this stuff out and declare it the one true god of economics.
we're not going to be able to sort this out for mankind here.

(especially when you are primarily concerned with alinskyite tactics rather than actual understanding)

he actually argued against income taxes by citing sales taxes
his effort there should he applauded :rofl:
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Dec 4 2017 05:22pm
Quote (cambovenzi @ Dec 4 2017 05:06pm)
I addressed a couple things.

You are just weakly parroting 'spend and consume as fast as possible on anything = good, save and invest = bad, who cares about producing and accumulating anything real?' theory, (while misrepresenting what happens to money not paid in taxes, and making sweeping false claims about tax cuts not supported by most economic studies as i mentioned..) thats been contested and attacked and debated at length by other, legitimate economists for decades.
Conveniently you manage to leave this stuff out and declare it the one true god of economics.
we're not going to be able to sort this out for mankind here.

(especially when you are primarily concerned with alinskyite tactics rather than actual understanding)


Hoo boy that's a lot of shit skinned never said.

Almost like you're building a Steadman
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Dec 4 2017 05:28pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ 4 Dec 2017 19:22)
Hoo boy that's a lot of shit skinned never said.

Almost like you're building a Steadman


Just like Oprah did

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Dec 4 2017 05:30pm
Quote (cambovenzi @ Dec 4 2017 05:44pm)
aside from the vast majority of studies on tax cuts and wide swaths of economists and economic theory, including keynesians



pretending a butchered version of Keynesian economics is 'anyone who knows anything about economics' isnt going to fly with people who know better


source? if tax cuts works so well why not go all the way like kansas did?
kansas was a failed experiment in precisely this kind of policy and even kansas republicans are telling the country not to repeat their mistakes https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/10/tax-trump-kansas/542532/
and look there's even a mises article with libertarian apologetics reframing it as a success by ignoring the impact to the citizenry and blaming the govt :o
https://mises.org/blog/why-kansass-tax-cut-failure-really-success
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Dec 4 2017 05:31pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Dec 4 2017 06:22pm)
Hoo boy that's a lot of shit skinned never said.

Almost like you're building a Steadman


its almost like its possible to make inferences from what someone says and know the theories they are talking about and have a pretty good idea of where thet are coming from after years of discussion :thinking emoji:

I'm building a snowman
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Dec 4 2017 05:43pm
Quote (excellence @ Dec 4 2017 05:46pm)
argues against income tax by citing sales tax

e: it’s President Trump’s economy

https://i.redd.it/gzqsib6odx101.jpg

http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/24/news/economy/trump-obama-economic-forecasts/index.html - Reality check on Trump's economic growth forecasts
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/5/23/15674512/trump-budget-economic-growth - Donald Trump’s budget relies on magic economic growth. Three percent per year is a lot less reasonable than it sounds.
http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-3percent-20170519-story.html - If Trump thinks he can get more than 3% economic growth, he's dreaming
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/25/economists-dont-buy-trumps-3-percent-gdp-growth-target.html - Economists don’t buy Trump’s 3 percent GDP growth target
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/05/23/529711005/one-huge-problem-with-trumps-promise-to-grow-the-u-s-economy - One Huge Problem With Trump's Promise To Grow The U.S. Economy
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/07/trump-does-not-appear-to-understand-basic-economics - TRUMP DOES NOT APPEAR TO UNDERSTAND BASIC ECONOMICS. Does the president know how G.D.P. growth works? The evidence is not encouraging.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/24/heres-why-trumps-3-percent-growth-target-doesnt-add-up.html - Here's why Trump's 3 percent growth target doesn't add up


https://kek.gg/i/7CQCWF.png



lol
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Dec 4 2017 05:46pm
Quote (cambovenzi @ Dec 4 2017 05:31pm)
its almost like its possible to make inferences from what someone says and know the theories they are talking about and have a pretty good idea of where thet are coming from after years of discussion :thinking emoji:

I'm building a snowman


Nah, any time anybody makes even the slightest inference from what you say, you go balistic.

You're doing exactly to him what you hate others doing to you, and doing it worse since you're going off far less.
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Dec 4 2017 05:56pm
Quote (duffman316 @ Dec 4 2017 06:30pm)
source?

example:
https://taxfoundation.org/what-evidence-taxes-and-growth/

Quote
if tax cuts works so well why not go all the way like kansas did?

Kansas didn't go 'all the way'. they had a small decrease in state income tax and some other carve outs.

Quote
kansas was a failed experiment in precisely this kind of policy and even kansas republicans are telling the country not to repeat their mistakes https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/10/tax-trump-kansas/542532/
and look there's even a mises article with libertarian apologetics reframing it as a success by ignoring the impact to the citizenry and blaming the govt :o
https://mises.org/blog/why-kansass-tax-cut-failure-really-success


If you define the success or failure of an economic policy and concept as wide ranging as tax rates based on whether one state government has a short term deficit/problem or not regardless of other factors you are doing it wrong.
The success of government revenue raising is not the same thing as good/bad economic policy.
Cutting some forms of taxes isn't the sole determinant of prosperity and everything nice. Kansas doesn't prove that tax cuts are inherently bad, just that you might run a deficit if you cut taxes and increase spending, and some other related points.

the mises article is there for anyone to read. dismissing it as 'apologetics' doesnt make what it says any less true.

Quote (thor)
Nah, any time anybody makes even the slightest inference from what you say, you go balistic.

You're doing exactly to him what you hate others doing to you, and doing it worse since you're going off far less.

oy.. not the whiny false equivalence BS again..
if skinned feels something is catastrophically misinterpreted i encourage him to clarify it.

im pretty sure skinned and I both have a pretty good idea of whats going on
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Dec 4 2017 06:18pm
Quote (cambovenzi @ Dec 4 2017 06:56pm)
example:
https://taxfoundation.org/what-evidence-taxes-and-growth/


Kansas didn't go 'all the way'. they had a small decrease in state income tax and some other carve outs.



If you define the success or failure of an economic policy and concept as wide ranging as tax rates based on whether one state government has a short term deficit/problem or not regardless of other factors you are doing it wrong.
The success of government revenue raising is not the same thing as good/bad economic policy.
Cutting some forms of taxes isn't the sole determinant of prosperity and everything nice. Kansas doesn't prove that tax cuts are inherently bad, just that you might run a deficit if you cut taxes and increase spending, and some other related points.

the mises article is there for anyone to read. dismissing it as 'apologetics' doesnt make what it says any less true.


oy.. not the whiny false equivalence BS again..
if skinned feels something is catastrophically misinterpreted i encourage him to clarify it.

im pretty sure skinned and I both have a pretty good idea of whats going on


i read the mises article but i'm not religious so i don't buy into the hack piece failure to own the results of policies they support, hell the article boldly states the tax cuts were good for economic growth - just not economic growth for kansas - which begs the question why the fk should kansas consider slashing taxes like that in the first place if they won't get the benefits?
an economic policy calling for wide ranging tax cuts leading to shortfall in tax revenue leading to schools being closed due to a lack of funding is an abominable failure in economic policy

This post was edited by duffman316 on Dec 4 2017 06:19pm
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