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Aug 29 2022 08:38am
Quote (Sixers @ Aug 29 2022 09:07am)
Nobody is on their high horse, i'm just here speaking facts. I knew the "you don't need a college degree to do well" argument was coming, everyone who doesn't have one is so sensitive and says the same damn thing when this discussion is brought up. I should have just said please save us the time and avoid that because it has been said a billion times. Congrats for defying the odds if you make six figures without a college degree, but for every one of you there are far more making far less. Yes, I know very well that you can do well without a degree, we all know this. However, it's factual that more education = more income, on average.

Here are the median lifetime earnings of full-time workers by level of education:

less than high school - $1.2 million
high school diploma - $1.6 million
some college, but no degree - $1.9 million, equal to about $47,500 annually
associate’s degree - $2 million, or about $50,000 per year
bachelor’s degree - $2.8 million, the equivalent of $70,000 annually
master’s degree - $3.2 million, or $80,000 annually
doctoral degree - $4 million, equal to $100,000 per year
professional degree - $4.7 million, or an average of $117,500 annually.


Again, does this mean you can't make really good money without a college degree? Of course not. Before you pull the "i make XXXX and don't have a degree" or "I have a friend who does this or this without a degree" we get it. I know millionaires who own their own businesses and dropped out of college before earning their degree. I know tradesman who makes six figures in unions and live a great life. The fact of the matter is that you handicap yourself without a college degree because it limits what you can do in today's world. You will never get far in healthcare without school after high school, the same goes for high law enforcement, teachers, engineers (mechanical and electrical), financing, marketing, sales, etc, etc. Some of these fields you can break into without a degree by knowing the right people, having the right entry-level experience, etc, but it's MUCH more difficult and on average someone with a degree will always be chosen ahead on average because of that simple piece of paper.

So yes, please blame the 18-year-old entering the real world who is then told that on average they'll make considerably less than their peers who end up with a college degree. Please be mad at them for trying to do the right thing and continue their education to further contribute to society and provide themselves with as many opportunities as possible. This is the system this country has created, and now you want to blame people (graduating high school students) for buying into it to do the right thing which ultimately sunk them into debt. Meanwhile, the government spends FAR more on other things that nobody wants to say a word about.

The amount of money forgiven by the government for the PPP loans is DOUBLE that of the student loan forgiveness. But sure, let's feel bad for the catholic pedophile church for accepting $3.5 billion in PPP loans and not paying them back. Or how about Tom Brady accepting $1M himself and not paying it back? Or how about Kanye West, Reese Witherspoon, etc, etc. all paid for by the American people. Meanwhile, half of all small businesses were denied PPP loans. Let's not act like that entire PPP bullshit wasn't a complete disaster as we saw billions literally go into the pockets of those that are already wealthy. But hey, let's be mad at the average American (90% of whom make $75K or less) for getting $10K knocked off their student loan debt. Makes sense. :wallbash:


The tradesmen don't understand that if every person who got a degree or went to college and dropped out instead went to trade school they'd get paid WAY less and have a hard time finding jobs. we used to have millions more people in the trades, now we have millions less because of college expanding its enrolment. we have a country with literally millions of underemployed college grads. divert those people to the trades and the trades would be very underpaid compared to now.

their advice is that of a school councilor, find the few people with an aptitude for the trades and push them in that direction. but follow the same advice for millions of people and you shake up the paradigm. u can tell one person to start growing vegetables and sell at farmers markets, do it to 20 people and all of a sudden no one makes enough money to justify doing it.
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Aug 29 2022 09:51am
Quote (pwb3 @ Aug 24 2022 01:54pm)
Instead of forgiving debts, punish the colleges and universities for their ridiculously inflated tuition costs. Punish the book sellers, too.

This is stupid and solves nothing in the long run.


You can't do that without attacking the government programs that pay for them.
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Aug 29 2022 10:05am
Quote (Sixers @ Aug 29 2022 09:07am)
Nobody is on their high horse, i'm just here speaking facts. I knew the "you don't need a college degree to do well" argument was coming, everyone who doesn't have one is so sensitive and says the same damn thing when this discussion is brought up. I should have just said please save us the time and avoid that because it has been said a billion times. Congrats for defying the odds if you make six figures without a college degree, but for every one of you there are far more making far less. Yes, I know very well that you can do well without a degree, we all know this. However, it's factual that more education = more income, on average.

Here are the median lifetime earnings of full-time workers by level of education:

less than high school - $1.2 million
high school diploma - $1.6 million
some college, but no degree - $1.9 million, equal to about $47,500 annually
associate’s degree - $2 million, or about $50,000 per year
bachelor’s degree - $2.8 million, the equivalent of $70,000 annually
master’s degree - $3.2 million, or $80,000 annually
doctoral degree - $4 million, equal to $100,000 per year
professional degree - $4.7 million, or an average of $117,500 annually.


Again, does this mean you can't make really good money without a college degree? Of course not. Before you pull the "i make XXXX and don't have a degree" or "I have a friend who does this or this without a degree" we get it. I know millionaires who own their own businesses and dropped out of college before earning their degree. I know tradesman who makes six figures in unions and live a great life. The fact of the matter is that you handicap yourself without a college degree because it limits what you can do in today's world. You will never get far in healthcare without school after high school, the same goes for high law enforcement, teachers, engineers (mechanical and electrical), financing, marketing, sales, etc, etc. Some of these fields you can break into without a degree by knowing the right people, having the right entry-level experience, etc, but it's MUCH more difficult and on average someone with a degree will always be chosen ahead on average because of that simple piece of paper.

So yes, please blame the 18-year-old entering the real world who is then told that on average they'll make considerably less than their peers who end up with a college degree. Please be mad at them for trying to do the right thing and continue their education to further contribute to society and provide themselves with as many opportunities as possible. This is the system this country has created, and now you want to blame people (graduating high school students) for buying into it to do the right thing which ultimately sunk them into debt. Meanwhile, the government spends FAR more on other things that nobody wants to say a word about.

The amount of money forgiven by the government for the PPP loans is DOUBLE that of the student loan forgiveness. But sure, let's feel bad for the catholic pedophile church for accepting $3.5 billion in PPP loans and not paying them back. Or how about Tom Brady accepting $1M himself and not paying it back? Or how about Kanye West, Reese Witherspoon, etc, etc. all paid for by the American people. Meanwhile, half of all small businesses were denied PPP loans. Let's not act like that entire PPP bullshit wasn't a complete disaster as we saw billions literally go into the pockets of those that are already wealthy. But hey, let's be mad at the average American (90% of whom make $75K or less) for getting $10K knocked off their student loan debt. Makes sense. :wallbash:



So you don’t want to talk about why tuition is so high to begin with. None of y’all do :rofl: I see you can explain quite well the problem that was created. Hat’s off. Free money y’all!!!!!

take your free money though and keep playing the blame game. Y’all always want to the government to give money away and do nothing to address the real problems.

This post was edited by YeeHaw on Aug 29 2022 10:07am
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Aug 29 2022 10:10am
Quote (YeeHaw @ Aug 29 2022 11:05am)
So you don’t want to talk about why tuition is so high to begin with. None of y’all do :rofl: I see you can explain quite well the problem that was created. Hat’s off. Free money y’all!!!!!

take your free money though and keep playing the blame game. Y’all always want to the government to give money away and do nothing to address the real problems.


state simply what YOU would do then.
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Aug 29 2022 10:15am
Quote (thesnipa @ Aug 29 2022 11:10am)
state simply what YOU would do then.



Student loans given by banks without government bailouts. First and foremost.


See how easy it is to actually respond to straightforward questions?

This post was edited by YeeHaw on Aug 29 2022 10:16am
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Aug 29 2022 10:27am
Quote (YeeHaw @ Aug 29 2022 11:15am)
Student loans given by banks without government bailouts. First and foremost.


See how easy it is to actually respond to straightforward questions?


which banks have been bailed out for student loan defaults?
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Aug 29 2022 10:34am
Quote (thesnipa @ Aug 29 2022 11:27am)
which banks have been bailed out for student loan defaults?



That was a qualifier. When you know there is bailout money coming there is little reason to act responsibly.
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Aug 29 2022 10:47am
Quote (Sixers @ Aug 29 2022 07:20am)
How about the bigger issue which is how expensive college is.


This is the real issue. They can keep forgiving loans every so often and it won't matter at all as long as they're charging interest and the cost of college continues to increase.
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Aug 29 2022 10:57am
Quote (YeeHaw @ Aug 29 2022 11:34am)
That was a qualifier. When you know there is bailout money coming there is little reason to act responsibly.


The issue with any debt bubble is time machines dont exist.

sure, write a law now that prevents future bailouts. i'd 100% support that. but the bubble is still there and will still burst. and when it does a lack of bailouts would have much further reaching effects than just student loans.
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Aug 29 2022 11:02am
Quote (itsmattlol @ Aug 29 2022 12:47pm)
This is the real issue. They can keep forgiving loans every so often and it won't matter at all as long as they're charging interest and the cost of college continues to increase.


There are some improvements to the system beyond just flat out loan forgiveness in this though:
  • For undergraduate loans, cut in half the amount that borrowers have to pay each month from 10% to 5% of discretionary income.
  • Raise the amount of income that is considered non-discretionary income and therefore is protected from repayment, guaranteeing that no borrower earning under 225% of the federal poverty level—about the annual equivalent of a $15 minimum wage for a single borrower—will have to make a monthly payment.
  • Forgive loan balances after 10 years of payments, instead of 20 years, for borrowers with original loan balances of $12,000 or less. The Department of Education estimates that this reform will allow nearly all community college borrowers to be debt-free within 10 years.
  • Cover the borrower’s unpaid monthly interest, so that unlike other existing income-driven repayment plans, no borrower’s loan balance will grow as long as they make their monthly payments—even when that monthly payment is $0 because their income is low.


Source: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/08/24/fact-sheet-president-biden-announces-student-loan-relief-for-borrowers-who-need-it-most/

This post was edited by Sixers on Aug 29 2022 11:03am
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