I do not believe that it's false to claim people hold the viewpoint in any way. I know people who hold that viewpoint.

I started out 100% pro-choice. I'm now 99% pro-life. Yet for all that, with all evidence provided, I do NOT personally believe PP is guilty of quotas to sell more fetal tissue. And I provided a well-reasoned point as to why it doesn't make sense.

They will gain funding per abortion regardless of whether they sell fetal tissue. It doesn't make sense that they'd want more for such a flimsy thing.

hold on, I think we got our wires crossed somewhere. Let me restate the previous post in more explicit terms for clarity.

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Viewpoint A: "I want to see the demand for abortions increase because it means we can make more money off selling the tissue".

Viewpoint B: "People that have Viewpoint A exist".
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There is global agreement that Viewpoint B exists and plays a role in the abortion discusion. Yet, there is not global agreement about whether Viewpoint A exists in real people. Instead, there is disagreement about whether Viewpoint A exists in real people. Therefore, a productive discussion would be to take a route that will lead to the resolution of this disagreement. I highlight this disagreement with the knowledge that it is merely but one minor layer. Resolving it wouldn't solve the big issue, but it would help us declutter the conversation to hone in on the larger issues.

This post was edited by Kayeto on Feb 2 2021 01:03am

You're giving me a headache. What are we discussing, exactly? That real people believe that PP have a quota for more abortions to sell fetal tissue for medical research? If so, I agree that real people hold this opinion. I personally know real people who hold this opinion.

So do you want to discuss whether those people exist, or whether their opinion is valid? I'm willing to argue whether their opinion is valid based on currently known facts. Whether or not they exist? I know they exist, so what's to argue?

Do you have a source on this? My understanding is that selling fetal tissue is prohibited by federal law, and that Planned Parenthood affiliates that engage in research can only be reimbursed for the cost of the tissue, such as transportation.

Right, we agree that people with Viewpoint B exists. The disagreement is whether people with Viewpoint A exist.



And perhaps that's why so little progress had been made. It actually is a multi-layered issue, with different agendas being piled on top of each other. This makes people tend to resort to their one immovable viewpoint ("my body my choice" or "abortion is murder") and plug their ears to all further discussion.

So you're arguing the validity of point A. I answered that question already. PP gains funding via abortions regardless of whether fetal tissue is sold. So abortion quotas would likely exist regardless of medical research.

I *think* we're mostly on the same page. I'm just having a hard time following your thought train, as you appear to be arguing with something I already answered.

Do people with Viewpoint A actually exist in the world? Are there people sitting around their table, saying "ok, how are we going to get more people coming into our facility to give us their fetal tissue?" Can we advertise? Can we spread information to help them decide to get an abortion? We want to increase the demand for our services because it increases our revenue.

I already addressed this by stating point blank:



So which debate are you promoting? That real people exist that think this mostly absurd conclusion is real? If so, they're real. That the conclusion itself is absurd or valid? Okay, if you want that discussion, I'm down, and have already made my opinion clear, with a solidly reasoned basis. Your turn.

This is what's giving me a headache. You don't want to address anything, you're trying to tie me in knots over what is essentially one point that's already been addressed. Why? I'm pro-life mate. Are you simply doing everything you can to get me to change my mind and support the murder of babies just to spite you?

I'm guessing that's a "no", meaning you don't think that people who hold Viewpoint A really exist?

How many ways can I say "I personally know people who believe viewpoint A" and have you still tell me I don't believe those people exist?

Are you high?