Give him a break. The conservative think tanks only estimate $60 billion in lost taxes and $300 billion in lost economic output.

nobody denied that kicking out the dreamers would have, among other things, some adverse effects.

but if you actually listen to what both trump and congressional leaders were saying, no one wants mass deportations of dreamers.

also note that even if DACA were to be phased out, the former DACA recipients would not immediately be deported, they would return to the status of illegal immigrants. and most illegal immigrants are actually NOT being deported, thats the reason why we're talking about this whole thing in the first place.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Sep 7 2017 12:42am

sure, so instead of keeping them in a status of at least temporary security, and for once ACTIVELY WORKING on solving a problem, instead of showing some ACTUAL LEADERSHIP and convincing his own party not to block any attempt to find a reasonable solution with "great heart" and "love", you just terminate the program and leave it up to congress (that failed multiple times to solve the issue - thanks to republicans ofc) to fix this within 6 months...

also, you'd be a madman to rely on trump's vague promises they would not be the main focus of immediate deportation, especially considering that the government has basically all their data now and an internal memo stating that daca recipients should prepare to leave:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/white-house-memo-daca-recipients-should-prepare-departure-n799026

no, the REAL reason we're talking about this is trump trying to keep his base loyal when the rest of america becomes increasingly aware of his utter incompetence and lack of leadership...
but hey, they aren't deporting law abiding, employed, well integrated immigrants - just ciminals, right?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-supporter-helen-beristain-husband-deported-mexico-roberto-ice-illegal-immigrant-detain-a7670606.html

This post was edited by fender on Sep 7 2017 01:35am

whats your problem? trump did give congress time to act, trump is absolutely right that this is a matter congress has to solve, not the white house, and he made his own stance on the issue clear.

if there is a majority in congress for keeping up DACA or something in its spirit, fine. if there is a majority in congress for ending DACA, fine. and by giving them a 6month deadline, trump has ensured that congress will have to come up with a compromise in the not so unlikely case that neither of these two options finds a majority. it is a difficult and controversial issue, and congress has tried its best to shy away from it. trump forcing their hand is a good thing.

that's not how it works though. trump has effectively ENDED the program - congress will not decide to "keep or end DACA", their task is to find a permanent solution that COULD look similar to DACA - or not.

although the simplistic "it's unconstitutional" talking point is not only highly hypocritical (considering it was obama's only option to give dreamers at least SOME kind of security after republicans filibustered any attempt in congress) but also at the very least highly debatable according to many legal experts, it is indeed very likely that with the stolen scotus seat, daca would NOT have held up in court - not that attorney general jeff sessions would even have tried to defend it, he's been one of its harshest opponents for years.

so my "problem" is that trump is risking the lives of the most innocent yet most desirable illegals to "force" congress to do something in a, legislatively speaking, rather short time - especially considering the other items that will be on congress' desk, like a COMPLETE TAX OVERHAUL... and the only "risk" they run for NOT finding a solution is that all those dreamers fall back to illegal immigrant status.

considering all this and trump signaling to NOT sign a single-issue solution only concerning "DACA" (which makes it obviously MUCH harder for congress to reach unity), your narrative that "he's just forcing congress to do something about immigration" (which in general is a good thing) is unrealistic and naive - at the risk of people he pretends to have compassion and love for.

it was not obamas job or "only option" to give dreamers security. his job was to follow the constitution and execute the will of the american people. the democratic representation of the will of the american people is congress. if congress doesnt come up with something like DACA, this means that the elected representatives of the people cant find a common stance on the issue. therefore, existing and applicable laws would have told what to do. it is NOT the president's job to unilaterally defy the legislative branch and the constitution in such a situation.



illegal immigrants falling back to the status of illegal immigrants... oh what a shocking and cruel thing that would be.


trump already announced that even if congress decided to let DACA phase out, he would not make dreamers a priority for deportations. but I guess in your worldview, anyone who doesnt follow the ideas of your leftist utopia has "no compassion and love for others".

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Sep 7 2017 03:43am

yeah the attorney general of the united states of america must be a simplistic idiot, while law expert fender is right of course

https://www.justice.gov/opa/speech/attorney-general-sessions-delivers-remarks-daca

"No greater good can be done for the overall health and well-being of our Republic, than preserving and strengthening the impartial rule of law. Societies where the rule of law is treasured are societies that tend to flourish and succeed.

Societies where the rule of law is subject to political whims and personal biases tend to become societies afflicted by corruption, poverty, and human suffering."

please spare us your propaganda and stop to assume to know anything better than an actual expert on the subject

while I agree in principle, the DoJ in the united states is already very politicized. we shouldnt pretend Jeff Sessions was unbiased on this issue...

I'll point a gun to your head... While telling you, I have no intension to shoot. It is congress whom have caused the problem by allowing me to have a gun in the first place. They have half a year to fix it. If they don't, I'll shoot.
The problem is that Trump is again, only being cruel. He's not part of the solution, he's only avoiding responsibility if it fails, he just holds the gun. "If you guys don't solve this for me, it's gonna end badly, bigly, gigady "


It is, if they became legal by giving their information to the government. And they did. Now we know where every 800.000 lives. Rounding them up afterwards is called entrapment.

Btw. These ppl have legit jobs right now.. Anyone got an idea of how much it would costs if they start selling drugs? or start stealing for an income ?

This post was edited by Knaapie on Sep 7 2017 04:20am