Quote (ringo794 @ Oct 26 2016 02:14pm)

I don't need to prove gravity. That's an entirely different animal than globe Earth. However, I can explain some of these things to you.
Floating is a function of a few things, most importantly density. Something more dense than water will sink in it. This is why boats have largely empty chambers.

The oceans are not upside down...so I'm not going to address that.
You can jump because the ratio of your leg strength compared to your mass is appropriate. Gravitational force is calculated based on the mass of the two interacting objects.

As for your air issue, the earth's atmosphere rotates with the Earth, so you don't really have an argument there, unless I am misunderstanding the question.


Anything else?



card has a valuable brain, so if I can sway their opinion, that is worth my time.
if not, at least I get practice in logical debate and a little refresh on some things that I haven't studied in ages. :D

Quote (russian @ Oct 26 2016 03:32pm)

You are gonna have some trouble here. Card doesn't understand what "relative" velocity means. Like... at all. See this: http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=75117518 He struggles with elementary questions if they involved two moving objects.
So in his mind, a flying airplane is moving 500mph in one direction, while the Earth is flying at 50,000mph in the other. He can't grasp the idea of the plane moving at 500mph relative to the Earth, he just doesn't get it. So that particular part is impossible to explain to him, because he's lacking the fundamentals necessary to picture it in his mind. He believes that as soon as the plane takes off, the Earth and its atmosphere would fly away and leave it behind, so the plane would experience 50,000mph winds as the atmosphere sweeps past it.

Quote (thesnipa @ Oct 26 2016 03:33pm)

valuable to science as an anomaly perhaps.

Quote (russian @ Oct 26 2016 10:32am)

You are gonna have some trouble here. Card doesn't understand what "relative" velocity means. Like... at all. See this: http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=75117518 He struggles with elementary questions if they involved two moving objects.
So in his mind, a flying airplane is moving 500mph in one direction, while the Earth is flying at 50,000mph in the other. He can't grasp the idea of the plane moving at 500mph relative to the Earth, he just doesn't get it. So that particular part is impossible to explain to him, because he's lacking the fundamentals necessary to picture it in his mind. He believes that as soon as the plane takes off, the Earth and its atmosphere would fly away and leave it behind, so the plane would experience 50,000mph winds as the atmosphere sweeps past it.

Quote (card_sultan @ Oct 26 2016 03:36pm)

No if the air is moving relative to the direction of the earth - it cannot also be relative to the random direction of every airplane as well. You are just forgetting that you the two concept are linked and are not completely separate. This is how you delude yourself into thinking you understand anything at all.

Quote (ringo794 @ Oct 26 2016 01:39pm)

@bold: yes it can, the relative velocities will simply produce different values based on the specific velocities of the planes.

study reference frames man
it's seriously good shit
An object traveling around the earth in one direction at 500 km/hr and one in the other at 500km/hr are at relative velocities of 1000km/hr to each other IN THEIR REFERENCE FRAMES
However, in the reference frame of the earth, they are traveling at only 500km/hr.
It gets really interesting when you get into time/distance dilation. I highly suggest checking it out.

Quote (russian @ Oct 26 2016 03:45pm)

I honestly tried man. I wanted him to actually understand, so I started asking things like "What about a hot air balloon that just hangs an inch off the ground and isn't moving. Should it also be swept by winds? What if we put a tiny propeller on it and started moving in some direction at walking speed, would it suddenly get swept by wind? What if it kept moving faster and faster, eventually reaching the speed of an airplane. At what point would it be swept by wind?" But then he just hides in his little cocoon and refuses to consider it.

Quote (ringo794 @ Oct 26 2016 10:34am)

so let's simply explain to him this:

much like the air is dragged with the earth's rotation, so is the plane.
THEN the plane is given the additional kick in either direction, which is the speed that we actually consider (next to our reference frame).

If he doesn't buy this, he should study introductory modern physics, or he's gonna be shit out of luck.
his choice I guess, but I am still willing to try to educate.



there is something great in the wrong answers.
sometimes more in some than in others, but everywhere you look, there is something to be learned.

Quote (card_sultan @ Oct 26 2016 03:50pm)

the earth spins at 1000 mph every day, it obits the sun at 66,600 mph, it spirals around the arm of the milky way galaxy at 500,000 mph
The earth gravity sucks in the air in the exact direction of all this movement

If force = MA and the air has mass and is moving - I wouldn't describe going in the opposite direction to this force as "a little kick" more like impossible fatastical misunderstandings of the way thing actually are
Try walking against 50 mph winds.

Earth is a flat plane, it does not move, the air doesn't move except for the heat caused by the sun, end of story.

Quote (russian @ Oct 26 2016 10:45am)

I honestly tried man. I wanted him to actually understand, so I started asking things like "What about a hot air balloon that just hangs an inch off the ground and isn't moving. Should it also be swept by winds? What if we put a tiny propeller on it and started moving in some direction at walking speed, would it suddenly get swept by wind? What if it kept moving faster and faster, eventually reaching the speed of an airplane. At what point would it be swept by wind?" But then he just hides in his little cocoon and refuses to consider it.

Quote (card_sultan @ Oct 26 2016 03:58pm)

So if you fly a in a hot air balloon for a 4 hours and the earth is really spinning at 1000mph - why dont you travel 4000miles?