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Oct 18 2013 09:31am
thanks
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Oct 18 2013 09:47am
Quote (Saucisson6000 @ Oct 18 2013 10:31am)
thanks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEtBs6j7QgU


lol, wtf?
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Oct 18 2013 10:13am
Quote (ReturnFormer @ Oct 18 2013 11:11am)
ive already brought two proofs that jesus's followers kept all the commandments, what more do you need?  nonetheless, there are more, which ive already mentioned in this thread, but ill restate them here.

evidence that the initial followers of jesus followed the commandments: acts 5:27-39. the apostles are brought before the sandhedrin and many want to kill them. gamliel says to be wary of this, and to just leave them alone, because if their designs are of human origin they will fail, as theadus, and if not they are fighting against god. if they were not following the commandments, gamliel would not have said that there were any potential the he is the messiah, as the jewish belief was not (and isnt) that the messiah will abolish the commandments. if the followers of jesus werent following the commandments, he would have agreed to put them to death as heretics. gamliel basically said 'lets wait and see'. if the followers of jesus werent following the commandments, he wouldnt need to wait. he could say right then that they were heretics.


from the sermon on the mount, a strong support of the commandments and the pharisees: "17“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."


another proof that jesus observed the commandments. i said previously "someone comes to jesus and kisses the 'fringes' of his garments. fringes, in the context of judaism, refers to a fulfillment of the commandment to bind fringes on the corners of your garments. that jesus was wearing them shows that he accepted and followed not only all 613 commandments of the written law, but also the oral traditions of judaism. the saducces, who rejected the oral tradition, didnt wear their fringes, they hung them on the wall."

the quote for this is luke 8:44. i made a mistake, she touches it, not kisses it, but there it is. while some translations translate it as border, many translate it as fringe or tassel. according to http://biblehub.com/luke/8-44.htm an xian commentator says as well that that refers to the fringes worn by observant jews.



additionally, let me quote you something that YOU said previously:  "i think its absurd to expect jesus to have gone about and commented on every single aspect of the Jewish law at the time, he makes blanket statements that teach a way to look at he laws and interpret them."  (post #62)

so he made blanket statements that the law should be kept.  what more do you need?



you seem to want to say that when jesus said keep the commandments, he meant only the ten commandments.  this does not fit contextually.  jesus was a jew and was speaking to jews.  when jews say commandments, they are referring to all 613.  if they want to refer specifically to the ten commandments, they specify the ten commandments.



i guarantee you if i make a poll asking "if when jesus says commandments is he talking about the 10 commandments or the 613 mosaic laws?"

10 commandments will win out.

you need better evidence linking when jesus says commandments he means the 613 mosaic laws.

there just isnt enough proof that when jesus says commandments he means the 613 mosaic laws that are dispersed though out several jewish texts.

This post was edited by Ylem122 on Oct 18 2013 10:16am
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Oct 18 2013 10:37am
Quote (Ylem122 @ Oct 18 2013 11:13am)
i guarantee you if i make a poll asking "if when jesus says commandments is he talking about the 10 commandments or the 613 mosaic laws?"

10 commandments will win out.

you need better evidence linking when jesus says commandments he means the 613 mosaic laws.

there just isnt enough proof that when jesus says commandments he means the 613 mosaic laws that are dispersed though out several jewish texts.


a poll is meaningless. who says everyone knows how to interpret things? clearly they dont, since as i said, as a jew jesus would have specified if he meant only the ten commandments. take a poll of jews and ask them what 'commandments' refers to. they will all tell you all 613, not the ten.

and again, there is biblical evidence to show that jesus kept the 613 comandments himself. that lends even more credence to him referring to all 613, not just the ten.

the 613 are not just 'dispersed through several jewish texts', they are recorded in the 5 books of moses, whose main purpose is to convey those commandments, and which christianity accepts as canonical.

all evidence supports jesus referring to all 613. the burden of proof is on you to prove it otherwise, not just say 'no, i disagree'.

This post was edited by ReturnFormer on Oct 18 2013 10:38am
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Oct 18 2013 10:39am
Quote (ReturnFormer @ Oct 18 2013 12:37pm)
a poll is meaningless.  who says everyone knows how to interpret things?  clearly they dont, since as i said, as a jew jesus would have specified if he meant only the ten commandments.  take a poll of jews and ask them what 'commandments' refers to.  they will all tell you all 613, not the ten.

and again, there is biblical evidence to show that jesus kept the 613 comandments himself.  that lends even more credence to him referring to all 613, not just the ten.

the 613 are not just 'dispersed through several jewish texts', they are recorded in the 5 books of moses, whose main purpose is to convey those commandments, and which christianity accepts as canonical.

all evidence supports jesus referring to all 613.  the burden of proof is on you to prove it otherwise, not just say 'no, i disagree'.


a poll means your evidence isnt convincing. you need more evidence.

im going to live my life in the way of jesus and follow the 10 commandments, you can do your 613 things, just know there is no guarantee that you will end up better or worse than me, and if you expect to convince any one what your saying is correct your going to need more evidence.

This post was edited by Ylem122 on Oct 18 2013 10:44am
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Oct 18 2013 10:49am
Quote (Ylem122 @ Oct 18 2013 11:39am)
a poll means your evidence isnt convincing.  you need more evidence.

im going to live my life in the way of jesus and follow the 10 commandments, you can do your 613 things, just know there is no guarantee that you will end up better or worse than me, and if you expect to convince any one what your saying is correct your going to need more evidence.


I provided plenty of evidence. You choose not to accept it for some reason without offering any contrasting eviDence but that's your choice. A poll is not evidence.

You also have no guarantee that you will not come to judgement after death and jesus will say to you "what happened? Why didn't you keep the commandments like i said to?"

This post was edited by ReturnFormer on Oct 18 2013 10:51am
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Oct 18 2013 10:51am
Quote (ReturnFormer @ Oct 18 2013 12:49pm)
I provided plenty of evidence. You choose not to accept it for some reason without offering any contrasting eviDence but that's your choice. A poll is not evidence.


its evidence that your evidence is lacking, yo. make the poll, provide your evidence, see what happens.

This post was edited by Ylem122 on Oct 18 2013 10:51am
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Oct 18 2013 10:53am
Quote (Ylem122 @ Oct 18 2013 11:51am)
its evidence that your evidence is lacking, yo.


That's your opinion. I don't think that numerous quotes showing that jesus and his initial followers kept the commandments and a proper understanding of the context of his statement is a lack of evidence.

All you have offered is a poll.

This post was edited by ReturnFormer on Oct 18 2013 10:54am
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Oct 18 2013 10:54am
Quote (ReturnFormer @ Oct 18 2013 12:53pm)
That's your opinion.  I don't think that numerous quotes showing that jesus kept the commandments and a proper understanding of the context of his statement is a lack of evidence.

All you have offered is a poll.


make a poll, give your evidence, see the opinion of many people other than just me, see what they think jesus meant when he said commandments. all youve got it my opinon and my opinion apparently isnt good enough, get some other ones.

my opinion is not going to change with out better evidence, let a poll show you how convincing your evidence is to some one other than me.

This post was edited by Ylem122 on Oct 18 2013 10:56am
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Oct 18 2013 10:56am
Quote (Ylem122 @ Oct 18 2013 11:51am)
its evidence that your evidence is lacking, yo.  make the poll, provide your evidence, see what happens.


I don't need to make it. A poll of people OPINIONS is not evidence. Especially in the face of factual textual evidence to the contrary.
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