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d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > Breaking News: Trump Committed Civil Fraud 3.4bil
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Sep 29 2023 10:36am
Quote (thesnipa @ 29 Sep 2023 17:24)
i havent come at you in years tbh lol, yet once in a while i either get a triggered response from you or just reply civilly to one of your posts and get a bitchy response lol. you're carrying around years of jibes from me that you cant put down, and you've deluded yourself into thinking i'm mad. but that's always been your issue, a group of guys made nazi jokes about the german kid because it was funny, and it clearly made you very mad. all u had to do was take it in stride and it would have died in a week haha. famous german sense of humor.

if it makes u sleep better at night i can just never ever talk to you again, just lmk.


considering how you held on to your butthurt over the years, how other people that i literally ignored for years kept stalking me with their weird personal attacks, the whole "just don't react and people will get bored" excuse is thoroughly debunked. it's just a fact that this sub managed to breed some clinically obsessed, petty little twerps.
and it's not like you hadn't already predicted that you can't help yourself, and will always try to insult me - can't say you weren't honest at least that once, so i'll give you that. i just find it funny that you deluded yourself into thinking i'm mad about it, when the only time i ever even mention it is to point out your hypocrisy when you clutch your pearls about someone being mean to you - like for calling a silly whataboutism "silly". that part went completely over your head apparently...

This post was edited by fender on Sep 29 2023 10:38am
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Sep 29 2023 10:43am
Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Sep 29 2023 11:31am)
He used insanely overblown valuations to secure credit. You can say "the bank should have checked better", but they were relying on fraudulent statements and documents provided by Trump, including things as basic as him tripling the size of his new york apartment.

Even if the banks should have done more due dilligence, it's still fraud. There's no legal defense based on the other guy not checking hard enough when you're supplying false documentation.

It was a civil case which is why it can be solved with summary judgement. There was no issue of fact because Trump admitted his valuations and admitted the basis for the valuations which were not legally defensible. A jury cannot and would not be allowed to find him not liable for damages when his stated basis for the evaluation is "I could get somebody from Saudi Arabia to pay for it" which is why it didn't need a jury trial.


Trump's company is the defendent, because the company supplied false documents with Trump and his family and staff as actors. The 250M being charged is basically saying that he got at least that much based on fraudulent activity. Things like fraudulent access to credit.


What the reasonable valuations are will still go to a trial. A jury might well find that the judge's valuation was too low and he can't be held liable for that much damages based on that case. And they will repeat that process for each item on the list. I expect the fraud amount will be dramatically reduced since the judge isn't really expected to have an incredible knowledge of real estate, and Trump's council didn't do a very good job presenting a reasonable valuation.


so the banks themselves are the ones filing these claims of fraud?

Quote (fender @ Sep 29 2023 11:36am)
considering how you held on to your butthurt over the years, how other people that i literally ignored for years kept stalking me with their weird personal attacks, the whole "just don't react and people will get bored" excuse is thoroughly debunked. it's just a fact that this sub managed to breed some clinically obsessed, petty little twerps.
and it's not like you hadn't already predicted that you can't help yourself, and will always try to insult me - can't say you weren't honest at least that once, so i'll give you that. i just find it funny that you deluded yourself into thinking i'm mad about it, when the only time i ever even mention it is to point out your hypocrisy when you clutch your pearls about someone being mean to you - like for calling a silly whataboutism "silly". that part went completely over your head apparently...


tl;dr you dont want me to ignore you forever, to take a line from you "must be obsessed with me". if i didnt matter you'd just tell me to ignore you forever then laugh if i slipped up and talked to you. but you need me i guess, so thanks. it feels nice.
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Sep 29 2023 10:50am
Quote (thesnipa @ Sep 29 2023 11:43am)
so the banks themselves are the ones filing these claims of fraud?


No, it's the state filing it. If you commit fraud and still pay it off then the bank wasn't harmed, but it's still fraud. The state can still come after you for fraud since they regulate businesses and have an interest in preventing future fraud by prosecuting fraud that happened even if it didn't harm another institution *this time*.
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Sep 29 2023 10:54am
Quote (thesnipa @ 29 Sep 2023 18:43)
so the banks themselves are the ones filing these claims of fraud?



tl;dr you dont want me to ignore you forever, to take a line from you "must be obsessed with me". if i didnt matter you'd just tell me to ignore you forever then laugh if i slipped up and talked to you. but you need me i guess, so thanks. it feels nice.


please ignore me forever, you've never contributed anything of value to our conversations anyway.

also, i know you read every single word, so posting "tl;dr" is just a silly little attempt to protect your ego from the fact that you don't have a good reply to being called out on your hypocrisy and pettiness. but i guess that's over now, since you won't reply to me or make comments about me ever again...
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Sep 29 2023 10:58am
Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Sep 29 2023 12:31pm)
He used insanely overblown valuations to secure credit. You can say "the bank should have checked better", but they were relying on fraudulent statements and documents provided by Trump, including things as basic as him tripling the size of his new york apartment.

Even if the banks should have done more due dilligence, it's still fraud. There's no legal defense based on the other guy not checking hard enough when you're supplying false documentation.

It was a civil case which is why it can be solved with summary judgement. There was no issue of fact because Trump admitted his valuations and admitted the basis for the valuations which were not legally defensible. A jury cannot and would not be allowed to find him not liable for damages when his stated basis for the evaluation is "I could get somebody from Saudi Arabia to pay for it" which is why it didn't need a jury trial.


Trump's company is the defendent, because the company supplied false documents with Trump and his family and staff as actors. The 250M being charged is basically saying that he got at least that much based on fraudulent activity. Things like fraudulent access to credit.


What the reasonable valuations are will still go to a trial. A jury might well find that the judge's valuation was too low and he can't be held liable for that much damages based on that case. And they will repeat that process for each item on the list. I expect the fraud amount will be dramatically reduced since the judge isn't really expected to have an incredible knowledge of real estate, and Trump's council didn't do a very good job presenting a reasonable valuation.


That's not really how it works with banks though. Banks do due diligence using a number of factors to determine collateral value. That's why appraisals are something that are almost always used when someone buys a house and the bank is issuing a 300k loan. They want to make sure the place (the collateral) is actually worth the loan amount and they don't get left holding the bag on a dump in case of default.

If the bank is dumb enough to have shitty risk policies and eager bankers to make commissions by issuing credit to someone they shouldn't or without doing adequate due diligence, that's on them really.

Banks also apply haircuts to valuation. Even something like US treasuries which are considered risk-free will get like a 5% haircut. Harder to price luxury real estate collateral would probably get a massive haircut.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Sep 29 2023 11:00am
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Sep 29 2023 11:00am
Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Sep 29 2023 11:50am)
No, it's the state filing it. If you commit fraud and still pay it off then the bank wasn't harmed, but it's still fraud. The state can still come after you for fraud since they regulate businesses and have an interest in preventing future fraud by prosecuting fraud that happened even if it didn't harm another institution *this time*.


The state protecting big banks once again! thx for the eli5, i still think its dumb but understand now.

Quote (fender @ Sep 29 2023 11:54am)
please ignore me forever, you've never contributed anything of value to our conversations anyway.

also, i know you read every single word, so posting "tl;dr" is just a silly little attempt to protect your ego from the fact that you don't have a good reply to being called out on your hypocrisy and pettiness. but i guess that's over now, since you won't reply to me or make comments about me ever again...


goodbye sweet prince!
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Sep 29 2023 11:04am
Quote (thesnipa @ 29 Sep 2023 19:00)
goodbye sweet prince!


good riddance, trench boy.
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Sep 29 2023 11:08am
All the people involved in Donald Trump's persecution will be sent to work camps. They better start learning how to use a shovel and hit the gym!

This post was edited by El1te on Sep 29 2023 11:12am
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Sep 29 2023 11:08am
Quote (thesnipa @ Sep 29 2023 12:00pm)
The state protecting big banks once again! thx for the eli5, i still think its dumb but understand now.


Yeah like if people like Goom would say something like, yeah he committed obvious and blatant fraud, but so does every bank and every big new york business so this is clearly just politically motivated, I'd agree with that.

It's just really pathetic that they won't even accept the blatant fraud that he admitted to in his own court filings.
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Sep 29 2023 11:14am
This is delirious cost if the Bank has to make a whole check by itself on dozens of properties. This is why people are signing and engaging themselves on fucking papers.
Btw this is not only a fraud toward the bank but also toward potential, scammed, associates. It unfairly allocates ressources, and unsecure the whole sector.

I am perfectly understanding the spirit of "each one saves his own ass" opinions but the main flaw here is... This spirit is the result of... "each one saves his own ass" policies... For the benefits of the overlord.
When you ask people what they think about X or Y and their primary answers will be a long list of I, I, I, Me, Me, For me...etc... Can you see the big picture here ?

This post was edited by Meanwhile on Sep 29 2023 11:19am
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