I am not not listening to the court. I just think that the court does not have sufficient evidence that the McMichaels committed murder. Like I stated, there is the possibility that they only committed manslaughter. The jury probably saw that 3 white men killed a minority then immediately classed this as a hate crime and a murder.

This post was edited by JessiWan on Sep 3 2023 03:42pm

The issue isn't about whether Arbery stole something. It's about whether at the time the McMichaels thought he stole something. In other words, the state of the mind of the accused at the time of killing. If they truly thought they saw a thief, then this adds weight to their claim that they merely attempted to perform a citizen's arrest. This attempted arrest did result in death, however it was accidental, not premeditated. Therefore, the death is manslaughter, not murder.

And the McMichaels' racist writings on the internet prove nothing. A racist white man can kill a black man for perfectly non-racist reasons. You say it's murder but you can't prove it. The McMichaels probably did have prejudice towards black people, which is why they assumed Arbery was fleeing from a crime when he was merely jogging through the neighborhood. However, Arbery's death appears to be entirely accidental to me. Instead of calling for cops to report that they thought they saw a thief, McMichaels pointed the shotgun at Arbery, which was stupid, and Arbery tried to grab it, which was stupider. Two stupid actions added together led to a death and a court case.

This post was edited by JessiWan on Sep 3 2023 07:03pm

again.. you cannot perform a citizens arrest if no crime committed. So yes if he stole something or not becomes a valid question.

The issue isn't about whether the McMichaels' attempt to perform a citizen's arrest was appropriate or not. The important issue is whether at the time, they truly thought they saw a thief. If the reason they tried to capture Arbery was because they thought he was a thief, then their intention was not murder.

Actually, I just looked up the case online, and it said the three men were not charged with murder, but rather, felony murder, among other things. This changes things a little. In order for a felony murder to stand, the underlying felony must be of a violent nature. So, this comes down to whether the other crimes that the McMichaels' committed were considered violent felonies or not. I believe they were definitely guilty of forcible confinement. They chased Arbery down, and I am not sure what kind of crime this was.

This post was edited by JessiWan on Sep 3 2023 08:28pm

Again you can’t perform a citizen’s arrest because you “think” without having consequences if you are wrong

If they performed a citizen's arrest but the arrest turned out to be false, then they should only be charged with the crime of falsely imprisoning Arbery, not murder.

Anyway, did you see my post #165? I added something.

This post was edited by JessiWan on Sep 3 2023 09:17pm

If someone has a good faith reason to perform a reasonable citizens arrest in a state where its legal, then it being mistaken due to unknowable circumstances wouldn't magically make it illegal, let alone felony false imprisonment. That flies in the face of the whole concept of mens rea. The question there isn't whether the actions were right or wrong, but whether at the time they were reasonable and done in good faith. They could be wrong but reasonable, or they could even be right about their suspicions but acting in bad faith.

The danger with a case like the Arbery one is what happens when society tries to eliminate the shades of grey and mitigation of culpability from cases- only when it suits their prejudices, of course. Criminal justice should never be an attempt to get a prosecution just an inch over the line of culpability and then demand crucification as the minimum punishment for jaywalking. We see the same thing in the January 6th trials. Even if you can show that someone was indeed acting criminally, a toe over the line, its a far cry from a malicious hate crime lynching. Arbery died because he grabbed a guys gun and that person needed to defend himself or die. Even if they created those circumstances without proper justification, they clearly were not trying to bait arbery into attacking them- it was completely unexpected.

not what the judge/jury decided.

And that says something about the judge, jury and society.

During the George Floyd riots, a guy torched a business, destroying the building and murdering a guy trapped in the basement who burned to death quite painfully. The arsonist got a 10 year sentence and only because it was federal charges, the state would have just spun him loose. 10 years for felony murder- a clear malicious felony with reasonable awareness it could kill someone, thus transferring intent, thats 10 years. Meanwhile the January 6th rioters get 17 years for breaking a window and the Arbery killer gets what, 60 years combined or something like that because he was in a situation where if he hadn't shot Arbery, Arbery would have shot him.

It doesnt take much awareness to point out that we're no more impartial and high minded than every generation that has come before us, we're just the most drunk on hubris to think we are above their prejudices and failings. Most of the liberal world order is premised on believing that 99.9999% of all people who have ever lived or are alive today all hold the wrong morals. Not a big jump to recognize that our criminal justice system just reflects our society grievances and collective animus.