@Black XistenZ You are going to just ignore what he said before that? All 100% valid...

Problem is you're ascribing homogeneity to a heterogeneous group. "The democrats and the media" are going to have contradictory opinions for that reason.

I was not talking about the media in general, I was talking about those parts of the media which more or less openly side with Democratic positions and the "Democratic cause". Which contains a shockingly large part of the media spectrum, but that's beside the point...

Furthermore, the Democrats (in my humble opinion) ARE mostly unified in their denial of the 2016 election. The vast majority of them indeed consider Trump to be a president who's either outright illegitimate, or who at least has such a weak democratic legitimization ("he lost the popular vote!!!111", "he only won because of his appeals to racists and idiots") that he's fair game and any tactics, no matter how dirty and dishonest, are justified to stop him.

It should also be noted how defiant and stubborn the Democrats arein their reaction to 2016 on a policy level. They ostentatiously doubled down on all the positions whose rejection fueled Trump's campaign.
Instead of saying "ok, we get it, we have let things get out of hands on illegal immigration and political correctness, and it was a mistake to ignore the losers of globalization so badly", their message since 2016 has basically been "we lost the election, but it wasnt our fault, and on the issues, we are still right and you are racist/sexist/uneducated/scum if you arent with us".

On both the procedural and the policy level, Democrats are largely unified in rejecting the 2016 election and its lessons.



He's conveniently ignoring the origin of the Mueller probe. The way they hid the blatantly partisan nature of the Steele dossier to obtain approval for the investigation into the Trump campaign from the FISA courts and all of that.
Also note how we found out in retrospect how actively and inappropriately Comey was trying to undermine Trump, which in retrospect makes his firing look much more justified.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Nov 25 2019 12:02pm

I don't view the Trump opposition as a whole as unhinged or hysterical. It requires a fair amount of nutpicking to pretend it is.

But if I were to just go through your list. I agree that the Kavanaugh episode was an overreach by the Democrats, and unfairly covered in general by the media. Basically agree on kids in cages thing. There was some hysterical opinions on what Trump would do to the economy, but not overly so.

Trump did saber rattle with North Korea... his rhetoric was incredibly inflammatory. And then he does a 180 and says weird shit like North Korea is no longer a nuclear threat and he fell in love with KJU. I agree there were those who didn't fairly consider Trump's tough policy on Russia, although his flowery and charitable rhetoric since day 1 of the campaign has been remarkably consistent. You have a point with the border crisis, although I think the coverage from Fox News and others was overblown in an attempt to influence the 2018 elections.

The problem is that Trump supporters want the media to adjust to him, because they themselves have. When Trump lies or acts like a fool, Trump supporters who still have brain matter left might roll their eyes or something. And when the media covers Trump's behavior or incompetence, they look at it and say, "Why are you focusing on this, aren't there more important issues?". To you guys, it almost seems petty that the media is again explaining what Trump lied about, or how his recent move reveals his administration's chaos. But that's the job they have. They aren't paid to adjust to Trump's neurosis.

https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1199028364117458950

Conan is at the White House.

IT is at the white house according to the 45

Unhinged and hysterical are not the words I would use to describe their general behavior. Some stories about Trump have been hysterical though.

My broader point is what I elaborated on in my second post, about how the Democrats and liberal-leaning media people have not accepted Trump as a legitimate president and refuse to acknowledge the message that the Trump voters sent them in 2016.




Mmhhhhhh..... .... ... you have a point.

Let's put it like that: Trump is an exceptionally erratic and shady president, and therefore deserving of increased levels of scrutiny by the media and the opposition.
Nonetheless, I think that the scrutiny and sometimes outright hostility he faces from the media and the Democrats far exceeds the level that would "objectively" be justified.


Various groups of people, myself included, side with Trump despite his glaring flaws and problematic behavior, for various and sometimes good reason. And yes, of course Trump's supporters dont like to be reminded of how much of a Faustian bargain their support for him really is, so that they want the media to normalize and rationalize his behavior the same way they did. So yes, you're certainly right in that regard, and also when you say that it is the media's explicit job to not do that, to not succumb to moral relativism and to not normalize abnormal behavior.

But then again, the liberal media is going far beyond that and is indeed treating Trump unfairly (even though a fair treatment of him would end up being pretty harsh anyway).

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Nov 25 2019 01:10pm

Fair enough. We're never going to agree on this issue, but your position is closer to the truth than most Trump supporters. Unfortunately television news is very surface level and Washington focused. Gotta appeal to the lowest common denominator.

Just saw a funny example of what you mention on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/joanwalsh/status/1199043343038263301

This post was edited by IceMage on Nov 25 2019 02:18pm

Lol!

But oh well... Twitter is gonna be Twitter, I guess. Twitter has the echo-chamber effect built in, it will always foster ridiculous, hyperpartisan takes on issues.
Crap reporting on mainstream media is much more serious imho. (And just to make this clear, no, not every critical reporting on Trump is made up or unfair.)

https://thefederalist.com/2019/11/25/twitter-suspends-andy-ngo-for-reporting-facts-about-trans-murders/

Remember folks: Virtue signalling using misleading or false crime statistics is protected by social media. Debunking it with factual crime statistics will get you banned. You're free to demand justice for the epidemic of transgender people murdered in the USA. You're banned if you point out that transgender people have a lower rate of murder victimization that cis people, and the murders of trans people that have happened are almost entirely black on black violence involving drug deals or prostitution in high crime areas. Which of course is well evidenced fact

but this is 2019, facts are banned.