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Nov 19 2017 07:51pm
Quote (fender @ Nov 19 2017 08:39pm)
first of all, comparing approval ratings of politicians in america's two party system with those in france / germany / and the uk, and expecting some kind of meaningful conclusion, is a very questionable approach to begin with. the 46% of americans who voted for trump and the 48% who voted for hillary are also results that are almost unthinkable in our multi party systems.

secondly, trump's approval rating (currently 38.3% according to RCP) is still LOWER than merkel's, even the one from their own source. also, his disapproval rating (57%) is significantly higher than merkel's and even macron's despite having a much larger base rooting for him no matter what, just based on the party he belongs to.

lastly, the numbers provided by the "zogby analytics" poll seem, at the very least in merkel's case (don't know about macron and may, perhaps some frenchies or brits wanna address that), very fishy. i don't know anything about them or their methods (and a quick google search wasn't particularly flattering), but while prolonged (and ++ breaking news: failed! ++) coalition talks might have seen her approval rating drop even further, established german pollsters "infratest dimap" have merkel currently still above 60% (!):

https://www.infratest-dimap.de/typo3temp/_processed_/6/d/csm_Folie4_08e1fc_b56346392b.png



so in conclusion, despite the odds being stacked heavily in trump's favour just based on the different systems, the only way you can justify the headline in regards to merkel is using an extremely questionable poll when it comes to her approval ratings and choose the rasmussen (!) poll for trump's...

washington examiner / 10


that's because people believe what the television tells them duh
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Nov 20 2017 12:20am
Quote (fender @ 20 Nov 2017 03:39)
first of all, comparing approval ratings of politicians in america's two party system with those in france / germany / and the uk, and expecting some kind of meaningful conclusion, is a very questionable approach to begin with. the 46% of americans who voted for trump and the 48% who voted for hillary are also results that are almost unthinkable in our multi party systems.

secondly, trump's approval rating (currently 38.3% according to RCP) is still LOWER than merkel's, even the one from their own source. also, his disapproval rating (57%) is significantly higher than merkel's and even macron's despite having a much larger base rooting for him no matter what, just based on the party he belongs to.

lastly, the numbers provided by the "zogby analytics" poll seem, at the very least in merkel's case (don't know about macron and may, perhaps some frenchies or brits wanna address that), very fishy. i don't know anything about them or their methods (and a quick google search wasn't particularly flattering), but while prolonged (and ++ breaking news: failed! ++) coalition talks might have seen her approval rating drop even further, established german pollsters "infratest dimap" have merkel currently still above 60% (!):

https://www.infratest-dimap.de/typo3temp/_processed_/6/d/csm_Folie4_08e1fc_b56346392b.png



so in conclusion, despite the odds being stacked heavily in trump's favour just based on the different systems, the only way you can justify the headline in regards to merkel is using an extremely questionable poll when it comes to her approval ratings and choose the rasmussen (!) poll for trump's...

washington examiner / 10


not saying I disagree with your points, but it should be noted for our non-german readers that the infratest dimap poll is conducted on behalf of the state-funded ARD tv station (comparable to the BBC in the UK) and has always been biased towards merkel. so while the washington examiner article picked the worst polls for may/macron/merkel and the most flattering one for trump, what you are citing here is among the most pro-merkel pollsters in the country.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Nov 20 2017 12:20am
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Nov 20 2017 02:29am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ 20 Nov 2017 07:20)
not saying I disagree with your points, but it should be noted for our non-german readers that the infratest dimap poll is conducted on behalf of the state-funded ARD tv station (comparable to the BBC in the UK) and has always been biased towards merkel. so while the washington examiner article picked the worst polls for may/macron/merkel and the most flattering one for trump, what you are citing here is among the most pro-merkel pollsters in the country.


feel free to find ANY other recent poll by an established german pollster about her popularity to provide as source here.

what you're saying here is incredibly misleading because it sounds like infratest dimap engages in political hackery (like rasmussen), is biased towards one particular party ("pro-merkel") and influenced by conducting polls on behalf of state-funded television, who are not only just ONE of their customers, but also politically independent as well.

so by all means, find the worst possible approval rating you can find for her by ANY somewhat established pollster, and i guarantee you it will still be SIGNIFICANTLY closer to infratest dimap than the strange 40% "zogby analytics" claim and the washington examiner based its article on.

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Nov 20 2017 03:02am
Here is a German article giving Merkel a 54% approval rating.

http://www.dw.com/en/support-for-merkel-rebounds-in-latest-poll/a-35984981


The problem with approval ratings, everywhere is that even IF they are unbiased, they will be biased. It's the same in the US. Even the most respected polls are somewhat biased.
There are many ways they can be biased...

1. The way the questions are asked
2. Whether the person being polled fits the accepted norm. Aka, the person might be doing a good job, but just might not be...liked.
3. Very few people who answer these polls are completely unbiased.

I think the best you can do where polls are concerned is take the results from about 10 of them, and then take the average. Even then, it can still be inaccurate.


Take Franklin D. Roosevelt, he was a well liked president. But you really can't go by whatever his poll numbers may have been. I'm sure there were many folk who would give a lower approval vote, knowing he was in a wheelchair.
A wheelchair would not affect how well a president was doing his job, but some people may be biased against a govt. official in a wheelchair.

Granted this is an extreme case, but look at Trump. He may be getting some percent of disapproval, just because his hair is weird. Anything can affect people's view of another person.
In Trump's specific case, he is dealing with a very severe partisan divide. In all my life, I've never seen worse.

I'm not sticking up for Trump in this case, just saying that so much animosity would sully the approval rating of the best of presidents.

/e I guess my main point is that polls are helpful, but not by any means...the last word.

This post was edited by Ghot on Nov 20 2017 03:02am
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Nov 20 2017 04:00am
Quote (Ghot @ 20 Nov 2017 10:02)
Here is a German article giving Merkel a 54% approval rating.

http://www.dw.com/en/support-for-merkel-rebounds-in-latest-poll/a-35984981


The problem with approval ratings, everywhere is that even IF they are unbiased, they will be biased. It's the same in the US. Even the most respected polls are somewhat biased.
There are many ways they can be biased...

1. The way the questions are asked
2. Whether the person being polled fits the accepted norm. Aka, the person might be doing a good job, but just might not be...liked.
3. Very few people who answer these polls are completely unbiased.

I think the best you can do where polls are concerned is take the results from about 10 of them, and then take the average. Even then, it can still be inaccurate.


Take Franklin D. Roosevelt, he was a well liked president. But you really can't go by whatever his poll numbers may have been. I'm sure there were many folk who would give a lower approval vote, knowing he was in a wheelchair.
A wheelchair would not affect how well a president was doing his job, but some people may be biased against a govt. official in a wheelchair.

Granted this is an extreme case, but look at Trump. He may be getting some percent of disapproval, just because his hair is weird. Anything can affect people's view of another person.
In Trump's specific case, he is dealing with a very severe partisan divide. In all my life, I've never seen worse.

I'm not sticking up for Trump in this case, just saying that so much animosity would sully the approval rating of the best of presidents.

/e I guess my main point is that polls are helpful, but not by any means...the last word.


this is a surprisingly sane and coherent post considering who it's from and i actually agree with most of your points.

considering this specific case, however, the article you linked is from october 2016(!) and referring to a "deutschlandtrend" poll. you know who conducts these? infratest dimap, the same institute i linked in my post, just a year old - and if you refer to the graphic i posted earlier you will see that 54% for october 2016 are represented in the graph.

and even if that was her current approval rating, it would be significantly better than trump's (rcp average takes many polls into account, including rasmussen) - despite our multi party democracy.

again, i'm not even trying to illustrate what a great or popular politician merkel is, i disagree with her on a whole lot of things, especially her naive approach to the refugee crisis, but the examiner article trying to make it sound like trump's historically bad approval ratings are somehow insignificant because some european leaders have even worse, is not only a heavily flawed comparison based on the different party systems, but also outright false in the case of merkel by any reasonable standard.

This post was edited by fender on Nov 20 2017 04:03am
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Nov 20 2017 08:44am
when it comes to merkel one should also take into account that she lost quite a lot of conservative supporters of her party (including me), while at the same time she won a lot of support from the left with her ridiculous policy
so its not really a suprise her approval ratings are stable and halfway decent

with the current development of the failed coalition negotiations this might change though ^_^
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Nov 20 2017 09:58am
Quote (IceMage @ Nov 20 2017 07:58am)



Democracy is not important. REEE
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Nov 20 2017 10:18am
Quote (ofthevoid @ Nov 20 2017 11:58am)
Democracy is not important. REEE



Im mad so im gunna side with a dictator. REEEE
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Nov 20 2017 10:22am
Quote (EndlessSky @ Nov 20 2017 11:18am)
Im mad so im gunna side with a dictator. REEEE


The REEEE stuff is just projection. Criticism of the cult leader hurts the feelers of the sheep.
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