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Oct 13 2023 01:17pm
Quote (Handcuffs @ Oct 13 2023 08:45pm)
It is very concerning the inability for people to see things through the lens of nuance.

You can condemn Hamas as an anti-Semitic terrorist organization, readily describe the 10/7 attack as an act of terrorism, and feel that Hamas needs to be eradicated while also recognizing that Palestine has been effectively made into the world's largest open air prison due to the egregious and inhumane acts of Israel.

This shit really isn't that complicated.


that distinction does not exist, its just wishful thinking at best by terribly naive people

hamas is gaza and gaza is hamas, they control everything, basically everyone supports them, they use non combatants as shields to produce awful pictures and gather support from morons in the west
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Oct 13 2023 01:20pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Oct 13 2023 01:16pm)
hamas afaik claims 70 were killed evacuating, but also told people to stay put, so hard to take the number seriously. it reeks of "its more dangerous out there, dont leave". not that i know it to be false.

al jazeera is reporting thousands have evacuated, and that ground reporters are saying many people are hastily packing and trying to find where is safe so they can leave. no hard numbers tho.

i tried to research his number, and couldnt even find A number let alone that number.


Could be, i saw an article updated 2 minutes ago on the NYtimes (paywalled) that 40 have died , its coming from The Palestinian Health Ministry, so again , if its 100% true or not, I dont know.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/10/13/world/israel-news-gaza-hamas-war

Actually you should be able to read that for free.

This post was edited by SBD on Oct 13 2023 01:21pm
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Oct 13 2023 01:21pm
Quote (JohnnyMcCoy @ Oct 13 2023 12:17pm)
that distinction does not exist, its just wishful thinking at best by terribly naive people

hamas is gaza and gaza is hamas, they control everything, basically everyone supports them, they use non combatants as shields to produce awful pictures and gather support from morons in the west


Genuinely curious: What is it like for a Palestinian who is vocally anti-Hamas and attempts to do community organizing around that sentiment within Gaza?
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Oct 13 2023 01:21pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Oct 13 2023 02:16pm)
hamas afaik claims 70 were killed evacuating, but also told people to stay put, so hard to take the number seriously. it reeks of "its more dangerous out there, dont leave". not that i know it to be false.

al jazeera is reporting thousands have evacuated, and that ground reporters are saying many people are hastily packing and trying to find where is safe so they can leave. no hard numbers tho.

i tried to research his number, and couldnt even find A number let alone that number.


Motivation aside, telling people to stay isn't insane in itself. You would have the river clogged with bodies within a day. A million people, mostly children, leaving would be a mass casualty event

Either way, they're dead.
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Oct 13 2023 01:25pm
Quote (Handcuffs @ 13 Oct 2023 14:21)
Genuinely curious: What is it like for a Palestinian who is vocally anti-Hamas and attempts to do community organizing around that sentiment within Gaza?


ded
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Oct 13 2023 01:26pm
Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Oct 13 2023 02:21pm)
Motivation aside, telling people to stay isn't insane in itself. You would have the river clogged with bodies within a day. A million people, mostly children, leaving would be a mass casualty event

Either way, they're dead.


i still dont see a way where the chances to die on the road exceed the chances to die in North Gaza as the army moves in. the frying pan beats the fire.
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Oct 13 2023 01:29pm
Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Oct 13 2023 01:21pm)
Motivation aside, telling people to stay isn't insane in itself. You would have the river clogged with bodies within a day. A million people, mostly children, leaving would be a mass casualty event

Either way, they're dead.


Really, their greatest saviour will probably be Israels image on the world stage and maintaining some world diplomacy. As long as Israel has that mindset, even a little it might reduce the death toll, but still likely to see tens of thousands of innocent casualties as a direct result, and then starvation, from those displaced or those not initially killed but have nothing.

Really depends on how long this campaign goes for.
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Oct 13 2023 01:44pm
Quote (Handcuffs @ Oct 13 2023 09:21pm)
Genuinely curious: What is it like for a Palestinian who is vocally anti-Hamas and attempts to do community organizing around that sentiment within Gaza?


looked at a some google results and these guys are dead, in exile, jail or communicate via email with the media without mentioning their real names
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Oct 13 2023 01:47pm
Quote (fender @ 13 Oct 2023 20:42)
if you think acknowledging that changes anything, think again.

as soon as you DARE to criticise israel's inhumane acts, as soon as you dare to speak out against the killing of palestinian women and babies, as soon as you provide some political and historic context that goes back further than their chosen narrative, which begins exactly 6 days ago, you're labeled an anti-semite, terrorism supporter, jihadist.

those people don't do nuance. they don't mind the apartheid, they don't mind the oppression, they don't mind the decades of discrimination and dispossessing. all they want "revenge", all they want is blood. they don't even realise that people like them are the main cause for the radicalisation that leads to the unspeakable atrocities committed by both sides...


Quote (fender @ 13 Oct 2023 20:53)
it shouldn't be. but some people are simply not intelligent, informed, or mature enough to acknowledge that it's more complicated than their simplistic good vs. evil dichotomy.

bottom line, they simply can't be reasoned with. they just outright ignore the parts that don't fit into their narrative, and try to smear and silence you with ridiculous lies and accusations - even if you repeatedly stated the exact opposite of what they claim your position is.


Quote (JohnnyMcCoy @ 13 Oct 2023 21:17)
that distinction does not exist, its just wishful thinking at best by terribly naive people

hamas is gaza and gaza is hamas, they control everything, basically everyone supports them, they use non combatants as shields to produce awful pictures and gather support from morons in the west


it's almost like they are TRYING to prove me right, lol. when you have that palestinian children are all hamas in order to justify their indiscriminate slaughtering you know that YOU'RE the one justifying atrocities - while ironically accusing people, who repeatedly denounced atrocities from the occupied, as terrorism apologists. it's pure projection really. accuse the other side of what you're guilty of. propaganda 101. in reality, everybody know who has been killing the other side by a rate of more than 20 to 1... women, children, medical personnel, reporters, human rights activists, unarmed protesters... but hey, all "terrosists", all legitimate targets...
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Oct 13 2023 01:56pm
Quote (JohnnyMcCoy @ Oct 13 2023 12:44pm)
looked at a some google results and these guys are dead, in exile, jail or communicate via email with the media without mentioning their real names


That is my understanding as well. I find it hard to reconcile those results with the idea that "everyone supports them [Hamas]".
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