Trump 2016 - Topic

Voyaging

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#15131

Oct 9 2017 09:54pm

Quote (Ghot @ Oct 9 2017 10:33pm)

Well for what, 250 years, no one has thought of one yet.

Other than the thousands of experts who have lol.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Oct 9 2017 11:53pm)

hyperbole much?

No, in my example certain citizens have votes thousands of times more valuable than others, and that's actually an enormous underestimation, it's likely in the tens to hundreds of thousands.

In the U.S., votes in Ohio and Florida are easily thousands of times more valauble than those in California and Texas.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Oct 9 2017 11:53pm)

can you name some of those systems that are mathematically superior AND have been implemented in an actual country?

afaik, the vast majority of countries on this planet fall into one of three systems: democracy with a majority voting system, democracy with a proportional representation, and various forms of dictatorship.

Will get back to you with a more thorough response later. But looking at Wikipedia pages of e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional_representation and the consequent specific links like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party-list_proportional_representation is a good starting point. These are particularly relevant for our pathetic Congress election process.

CGPGrey has some great YouTube videos about various problems with the U.S. electoral system as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo&list=PL7679C7ACE93A5638

This post was edited by Voyaging on Oct 9 2017 10:01pm

IgoSoHard

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#15132

Oct 9 2017 09:57pm

Voter turnout is an important issue as well. Among developed countries the U.S ranked 31 out of 35 in terms of voter turnout. It’s pathetic.

Voyaging

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#15133

Oct 9 2017 09:58pm

Quote (IgoSoHard @ Oct 9 2017 11:57pm)

Voter turnout is an important issue as well. Among developed countries the U.S ranked 31 out of 35 in terms of voter turnout. It’s pathetic.

Happens when your electoral system was designed to minimize the voting power of the majority of the citizens.

Ghot

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#15134

Oct 9 2017 10:00pm

Quote (Voyaging @ Oct 9 2017 11:58pm)

Happens when your electoral system was designed to minimize the voting power of the majority of the citizens.

Just out of curiosity, were you on here complaining about the Electoral College, for anyone other than Trump?

EndlessSky

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#15135

Oct 9 2017 10:00pm

Quote (Voyaging @ Oct 9 2017 11:58pm)

Happens when your electoral system was designed to minimize the voting power of the majority of the citizens.

Quote (IgoSoHard @ Oct 9 2017 11:57pm)

Voter turnout is an important issue as well. Among developed countries the U.S ranked 31 out of 35 in terms of voter turnout. It’s pathetic.

Voter turnout was 85% before women started voting.

Voyaging

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#15136

Oct 9 2017 10:01pm

Quote (EndlessSky @ Oct 10 2017 12:00am)

Voter turnout was 85% before women started voting.

Damn women.

Quote (Ghot @ Oct 10 2017 12:00am)

Just out of curiosity, were you on here complaining about the Electoral College, for anyone other than Trump?

Yes I have dozens of posts on the topic prior to Trump even being a candidate.

At least as far back as when I first saw this CGPGrey video and became interested in how idiotic the system is:

Also part 1 explaining it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUS9mM8Xbbw

Since Trump's election, he has also released follow-ups:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcZTTB10_Vo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3wLQz-LgrM

This post was edited by Voyaging on Oct 9 2017 10:04pm

EndlessSky

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#15137

Oct 9 2017 10:06pm

Quote (Voyaging @ Oct 10 2017 12:01am)

Damn women.

Its like watching a squirrel on a skateboard. They pretend but they really have no idea what they're doing in a political conversation. +90% of the time

Its fun, try it. Ask them what the three branches of government are.

Voyaging

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#15138

Oct 9 2017 10:07pm

This video in particular touches on the exact argument we were just touching on:

Strongly recommend and would appreciate viewing before continuing discussing as it directly responds to the majority of arguments raised in the past few pages.

tl;dw The Electoral College does nothing its proponents claim it does.

This post was edited by Voyaging on Oct 9 2017 10:09pm

Ghot

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#15139

Oct 9 2017 10:13pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_College_(United_States)

...as you can see the States are represented by population, with the sole exception being that ALL states have 3 votes minimum.

The thing to understand here is that every state SHOULD have a say in who the president is. Just because most people live in the coastal states, doesn't mean we should ignore the desires of the inland states.
I guess everyone in the US could just "move" to the coastal states, then the inland states wouldn't need electoral votes.

Quote

Each state chooses electors, equal in number to that state's combined total of senators and representatives. There are a total of 538 electors, corresponding to the 435 representatives and 100 senators, plus the three electors for the District of Columbia as provided by the Twenty-third Amendment.

This is where the popular vote, gets to count. It's a way of protecting the office of president from being filled by, say...Madonna.

This post was edited by Ghot on Oct 9 2017 10:16pm

Voyaging

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#15140

Oct 9 2017 10:18pm

Quote (Ghot @ Oct 10 2017 12:13am)

Well, like I said we went over this ...massively in this very topic.
I for one don't intend to type it all again.

But next time you want to know about the electoral college, try googling that instead of Proportional Representation. :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_College_(United_States)

...as you can see the States are represented by population, with the sole exception being that ALL states have 3 votes minimum.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cf/Electoral_map_2012-2020.svg/959px-Electoral_map_2012-2020.svg.png

The thing to understand here is that every state SHOULD have a say in who the president is. Just because most people live in the coastal states, doesn't mean we should ignore the desires of the inland states.
I guess everyone in the US could just "move" to the coastal states, then the inland states wouldn't need electoral votes.

This is where the popular vote, gets to count. It's a way of protecting the office of president from being filled by, say...Madonna. :)

Lmk when you read my previous posts.

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