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Aug 3 2022 01:57pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Aug 3 2022 03:41pm)
"demand is up", source: Chevron CEO.

i have no doubt it's up from when lockdowns happened, and i have no doubt it's up in 2nd and 3rd world nations that can't afford gas economically at the current prices, i have a lot of doubts that it's rising steadily in the US and Europe with the emergence of EVs in personal vehicles and public transit. IMO they're selling cheaper lower quality gas to 2nd and 3rd world nations to build the next generation of consumer countries for petroleum products while passing along the costs of this to 1st world nations that demand premium fuel.

as to the democrats needing to own the lack of oil rigs/refineries in the US being newly built, why wouldn't they? that's their stated plan. unless they're on a stage in Oklahoma surrounded by oil industry workers ala HRC's west virginia coal minder blunder.

if u have sources explaining the breakdown on a demand increase i'll read them, im not going to take the CEO of chevron's word for it.


Oil demand is going up because as the 3rd world rises out of poverty more and more plebs can drive and consume it. It was always going to go up regardless of the pandemic, that was just a blip. The Chevron guy is simply talking about why output can't be magically raised overnight.

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World oil demand is forecast to reach 101.6 mb/d in 2023, surpassing pre-pandemic levels.


Quote
longer-term drivers of growth will continue to push up oil demand. As a result, by 2026, global oil consumption is projected to reach 104.1 mb/d. This would represent an increase of 4.4 mb/d from 2019 levels.



https://www.iea.org/reports/oil-market-report-june-2022
https://www.iea.org/reports/oil-2021
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Aug 3 2022 02:18pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ Aug 3 2022 02:57pm)
Oil demand is going up because as the 3rd world rises out of poverty more and more plebs can drive and consume it. It was always going to go up regardless of the pandemic, that was just a blip. The Chevron guy is simply talking about why output can't be magically raised overnight.






https://www.iea.org/reports/oil-market-report-june-2022
https://www.iea.org/reports/oil-2021


they did raise their capacity some 8% without any new refineries, and are building refineries in 2nd and 3rd world nations to further increase capacity. as is OPEC in the middle east.

6+ year forecasts of petroleum product demand is still showing we're nearing the peak with a drastic decline after that peak.

soon lowered demand will outpace lowered supply, both as supply rises nominally and demand falls off drastically. thus they're investing the billions in renewables they'd instead have invested in refineries.

you still, however, seem to be trying to prove that left winged policy is causing price changes in the market, something ive not countered and agreed with. odd that.
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Aug 3 2022 02:25pm
Biden's policies certainly haven't done enough to help the situation but the issues we're facing today started in 2020 when the government started handing out free money not to work.
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Aug 3 2022 09:38pm
New OPEC numbers are 100k bbl increased production. Previous months went up 600k each. They are bracing for the decreased demand of a recession while giving biden the most meagre token to show for his appeals.
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Aug 4 2022 07:50am
Quote (Goomshill @ Aug 3 2022 10:38pm)
New OPEC numbers are 100k bbl increased production. Previous months went up 600k each. They are bracing for the decreased demand of a recession while giving biden the most meagre token to show for his appeals.


We're nearing the ledge we all knew was coming, oil production will soon exceed gasoline demand. 4-6 years and the bubble will leave millions of barrels of oil with no use. then we'll see Saudi call centers pop up once the region needs to get real jobs.
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Aug 4 2022 09:15am
Quote (Goomshill @ Aug 3 2022 11:38pm)
New OPEC numbers are 100k bbl increased production. Previous months went up 600k each. They are bracing for the decreased demand of a recession while giving biden the most meagre token to show for his appeals.


Gas prices are getting cheaper at least.
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Aug 4 2022 09:23am
Quote (thesnipa @ Aug 4 2022 08:50am)
We're nearing the ledge we all knew was coming, oil production will soon exceed gasoline demand. 4-6 years and the bubble will leave millions of barrels of oil with no use. then we'll see Saudi call centers pop up once the region needs to get real jobs.


We've had recessions before and we'll have recessions again, Saudis will drop their production when recessions hit full swing and bring it up again after. I don't see how its different now than the last few
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Aug 4 2022 09:35am
Quote (Goomshill @ 4 Aug 2022 17:23)
We've had recessions before and we'll have recessions again, Saudis will drop their production when recessions hit full swing and bring it up again after. I don't see how its different now than the last few


I think he assumes that the transition to green energy is imminent and will curb demand for oil once the global economy recovers.

Not only is the technology not ready yet for this to happen at a large scale, it also misses the fact that the global population is still growing rapidly, the emerging middle classes in much of the global south are settling into a more energy-hungry lifestyle and the industrialization in the third world is also picking up pace. Snipa is right that global demand for oil (and other fossil energies) will eventually hit a peak and then come down - I just think that he's off by at least 15-25 years. Global oil demand isn't gonna hit a cliff in 4-6 years, it's gonna be in ~20 years at the earliest.
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Aug 4 2022 09:46am
Quote (Goomshill @ Aug 4 2022 10:23am)
We've had recessions before and we'll have recessions again, Saudis will drop their production when recessions hit full swing and bring it up again after. I don't see how its different now than the last few


Quote (Black XistenZ @ Aug 4 2022 10:35am)
I think he assumes that the transition to green energy is imminent and will curb demand for oil once the global economy recovers.

Not only is the technology not ready yet for this to happen at a large scale, it also misses the fact that the global population is still growing rapidly, the emerging middle classes in much of the global south are settling into a more energy-hungry lifestyle and the industrialization in the third world is also picking up pace. Snipa is right that global demand for oil (and other fossil energies) will eventually hit a peak and then come down - I just think that he's off by at least 15-25 years. Global oil demand isn't gonna hit a cliff in 4-6 years, it's gonna be in ~20 years at the earliest.


EVs will follow the same path in the long run that smart phones did. we had only iphones (as we have only tesla), we didnt have infrastructure to necessitate smart phones they were just fancy toys, a few competitors of lower quality emerged, and some 15 years later smart phones went from a regular phone with a camera and spotty email access to a daily necessity of almost every person in the entire world. we now have 3rd world citizens carrying smart phones that didnt even have electricity when the iphone hit the market.

demand, technology and infrastructure always hits a tipping point and the advancements come at a speed and scale no one during the run up thought was possible.

i think in reality in 5 years from now to a period of 15 years from now we'll see 1st world demand drop drastically while 3rd world demand increases, offsetting each other, then we'll see 2nd then 3rd world demand drop off. it wont be as much of a peak as a mesa.
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Aug 4 2022 09:56am
Quote (thesnipa @ 4 Aug 2022 17:46)
EVs will follow the same path in the long run that smart phones did. we had only iphones (as we have only tesla), we didnt have infrastructure to necessitate smart phones they were just fancy toys, a few competitors of lower quality emerged, and some 15 years later smart phones went from a regular phone with a camera and spotty email access to a daily necessity of almost every person in the entire world. we now have 3rd world citizens carrying smart phones that didnt even have electricity when the iphone hit the market.

demand, technology and infrastructure always hits a tipping point and the advancements come at a speed and scale no one during the run up thought was possible.

i think in reality in 5 years from now to a period of 15 years from now we'll see 1st world demand drop drastically while 3rd world demand increases, offsetting each other, then we'll see 2nd then 3rd world demand drop off. it wont be as much of a peak as a mesa.

Smartphones replaced older phones because they offered significantly more features. They were a strictly and vastly superior technology. By contrast, EVs are inferior performance-wise to ICE cars. They can't do anything new and are substantially more expensive. Even if economy of scale kicks in and certain growing pains are solved (e.g. the sensitivity of the battery/range to very low or high temperatures), EVs will at best be a technological sidegrade.

Another reason for the success of smartphones is that it allowed underdeveloped parts of the world to jump into the digital age. It allowed people in Africa, Latin America or South Asia to bypass the era of desktop PCs and landline internet; the infrastructure requirements were much lower.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Aug 4 2022 10:06am
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