you're welcome to accept polls stating bernie was more favorable than biden against trump, i disagreed with them and voted with my gut is all. worked out fine, trump leaving office was more important to me than who came in after personally. not that who is potus is unimportant.

he could have written a 500 page book on how to pass his policies and bernie still would have gotten cucked by congress. congress will never police congress. the scotus is the only slim hope we have. student loan forgiveness im not 100% settled on personally. and min wage was a moot point come voting day, even mcdonalds was offering 14$/hour due to the pandemic.

how my personal beliefs and pragmatic voting record dont always line up have confused many people. so im used to it. i also am as prone to vote from my gut as i am to research things obsessively. o well.

I think everyone already expected the court to overturn roe or narrow roe in some fashion. If its the liberals, why not leak this when it was written in Feb? Nows roughly the time the justices start dissenting/concurring try to horse trade for votes/wording changes.

Right, and when it becomes apparent now that no one is horse trading their vote, it's time to upend the apple cart.

i'm not opposed to pragmatic voting. my point, however, is that it simply wasn't - as polling and a look at turnout demographics suggests. let me try to avoid misunderstandings by outright stating i'm not saying you're lying about your motivations to dismiss bernie and support the establishment, i'm just saying it does not to appear to be founded on facts to me.

Or if you're Alito and you think you're about to lose one of your votes to overturn Roe to Robert's compromise, you leak your draft to try to lock him and the text of your opinion in.

its not. the polls, if we're to take those as our only set of facts, pointed towards bernie as the best shot to beat trump.

my gut told me that was wrong, my gut told me that biden had the only chance to beat trump, my gut told me that bernie's platform wasnt going to work in congress and he'd be staring down a complete loss of any mandate he had in both houses come midterms after 2 years of "COMMIE" being screamed at him by fox news. and my gut told me biden would get called senile and they'd screech about Hunter's laptop, but that his connections and centrist leanings might get a few things done.

and my memory told me that in 2016 the polls were way off. Fool me once, shame on... shame on you. Fool me—you can't get fooled again.

I'd say penis_hat's predictions for 2020 were more on point than mine. I was saying I didn't concern myself too much with who won, because it should be the lowest stakes in an election- Trump already having done most of his policy initiatives, Biden being a status quo moderate, unlikely to get many court picks, pandemic recovery supposed to be in full swing with vaccines already developed. It seemed like it wouldn't matter much, unlike the 2016 choice between Hillary and Trump. And now here we are with a dozen national crises at the same time and on the precipice of world war 3.

I just find it a little strange that in 2022 yet another fixture of american democracy is losing credibily while the alt-right is dancing about saying "we've won we've won!"

Almost like Trump left the country in the shitter when he left.

No no, that can't be it. Every problem in our country had to have spawned spontaneously in the last year.

we both know better than to simplistically dismiss political polling, whenever it fits our chosen narrative, just because of "2016". we know the difference between early, late, and exit polls. we know the difference between popular vote and the EC. we know about margins of error and the partisan skew of different pollsters. we know the difference between dishonestly juxtaposed headlines and actual poll results. so let's just drop that silly talking point, neither of us is goon-shill. polls aren't perfect, but a reasonably big body of reasonably reliable polls is still a reasonably valid tool trying to evaluate public opinion on a given topic.

you having a different gut feeling and political opinions is a good enough and obviously perfectly valid reason. it's just that given the polls and areas of agreement regarding progressive policies as well as criticisms of the system, your actions don't make sense to ME personally. but again, if you're happy with it, if it makes sense to you, that's obviously fair enough. all i'm saying that each year the system is unchallenged by politicians who are the architects, products, or profiteers of it, it entrenches these mechanisms and the political class protecting it. it will be more difficult to change it next general election, and even more so in the following one, and "pragmatists" - no matter how they really feel about it - are helping to make it impossible to change. is that fair to say?

This post was edited by fender on May 3 2022 12:28pm