Sounds familiar. Oh wait...



People from various backgrounds differ not only in the color of their skin/their biology, they also differ in their culture, traditions, upbringing, role-models and values.

For example, East Asians place a higher value on education than whites, blacks or hispanics, so their children tend to be the highest performing group in the educational system. Why should they be punished for it and spots at universities instead be given to lower-performing blacks or hispanics (or whites, for that matter)?

Similarly, it is not surprising that a culture which is glorifying the life of violent, drug dealing street criminals is not the one that breeds the highest share of kids who dream of becoming a lawyer or an engineer.

Your argument only works if you believe culture exists in a vacuum lol. We literally had governors being forcibly removed from the doorway of schools to block black kids from being integrated in my parents lifetime. Gee, wonder why that might lead some groups to not value education when it has historically not been a path they have had access to, and when they did get educated and wealthy their towns were literally burned to the ground. I really liked that black wall street video I PMed you last week. Did you watch it?

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Jul 21 2020 06:32pm

I havent found the time for that yet, sry, but it's on my list.

I get your point btw, decades of racism, discrimination and deprivation have fostered a destructive culture in black communities. And society very much has an obligation to end this discrimination. This does not, however, mean that positive discrimination (which effectively is a discrimination of others) is a good solution, or that it would change the toxic culture in black communities.

Exactly because I believe that people of all races are generally equally capable do I believe that these grown inequalities will fade away over time once we have provided for a level playing field.
My point has never been that the playing field shouldnt be flat, my point simply is that I reject the idea of tilting the playing field the other way.


Irrespective from the particular case of African Americans, your argument does not explain why East Asians are also more successful in school and college than white Americans, in spite of the latter never having been on the receiving end of systematic discrimination, in spite of white Americans having more power and connections and privileges than Asians.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Jul 21 2020 07:09pm

pale pasty privileged lefties get to decide what is racist or what is not racist when it comes to education policy. yes you read that correctly

like thor’s example, privileged lefties standing in schoolhouse doors and being in tandem with their kkk friends trying to intimidate minorities. took a Republican President to send the troops in to get the lefties to act right (funny how history repeats itself even if I disagree with what’s going on right now with federal troops being sent to cities)

Kind of begs a question though. Is it "tilting the field" to correct a previous tilt? We aren't working on a flat surface here where everything can be tilted uniformly.

If we are running a marathon, and when we start I jab you in the kidney so hard you collapse, is it "leveling the field" to restart the race? No, obviously not. You're still running with an obviously obstructing injury. Is it then unfairly tilting the field to handicap the person who injured the other party? What's the best solution? In the real world we can't come up with an easy mathematical formula to slow everybody down to compensate for one runner's busted kidney that came about from foul play. So it's not really accurate to say we're "tilting the field in the other direction" with things like affirmative action, because from the perspective of people who had the field tilted in their favor previously it looks like you're tilting it against them, but from the perspective of the person/people who have had a disadvantage all along it looks like you're correcting a long-standing error.

My point is there are no clean solutions. "Making the field flat" only works as time approaches infinity, anything less and the field isn't level.


East Asians have their own history. Initially they were heavily discriminated against, but in more modern history they were the target of positive propaganda campaigns and encouraged to immigrate if they had skills or education. So whereas we disproportionately and forcefully brought in uneducated black people, we disproportionately offered advantages to well educated Asian people. So there's a whole history that has to be considered. Tilting the field against Asians makes it seem like they're being punished for having a good culture and good work ethic, but the reason they disproportionately have that culture in the United States is because we selectively imported people with that ethic and reinforced it.

Too often these realities are just ignored in favor of simplistic ideas like "IT'S ABOUT CULTURE!" or "IT'S DISCRIMINATION AGAINST WHITES!". It's a lot more complicated than that, and it's hard to figure out how to solve the problem with 95% of people don't engage in the actual history that brought about the issues.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Jul 21 2020 07:20pm

Its plain and simple. Your ideas are shit and will never work. Ours will work. So get the fuck out of the way.

To stay within your metaphor: The problem is that you're not handicapping the person who injured the other party, you're giving the guy who was punched in the kidney, and everyone who looks like him, a headstart over the guy who played foul, and also over everyone else who looks like the puncher. In the pursuit of restorative justice, you have created new injustices.



The playing field doesnt have to be perfectly flat btw, it must only be flat enough so that it's slope doesn't offset the disparities in talent anymore.

For your metaphor to work it would have to be a relay, and the people in second and third position are like "I didn't cheat to get ahead, why am I being punished?!"

A certain black anthropologist would disagree with you. Naturally he was labelled an uncle tom.
https://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/rich-black-flunking/Content?oid=1070459


This post was edited by duffman316 on Jul 21 2020 11:28pm

I'd have to read more to confirm, but possibly rightly so. If somebody won't acknowledge that one feeds into the other, as in economic and national sentiment turns into culture and vice versa, then he should be heavily criticized. Culture and attitude don't arise in a vacuum.

Consider this, until relatively recently in white circles it was considered to be a nerd if you were into science and did really well in school. I know it was in my school. Fast forward to now and the highest paying jobs are in technology and a result of higher education. It is now very fashionable to be a nerd because they are the ones with money. This change of attitude did not happen because of some inherently good part of white culture. It came about from economic realities

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Jul 21 2020 11:37pm