Official Impeachment Vote Thread - Topic

tagged4nothing

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#151

Dec 18 2019 10:24pm

Quote (Ghot @ Dec 18 2019 11:07pm)

Someone should tell the Dems about Youtube. :D

/e I think... if they let the Senate vote and the senate acquits, then they can't re-impeach Trump, because of double jeopardy. IF double jeopardy, even applies.

Either that or they just want to continue to try and make Trump look bad, aka, more trouble than he's worth... to the voters. I don't think there's any law that says they HAVE to move on to the Senate, after they vote to impeach.

the "trial" is already over as of "impeachment". double-jeopardy is nearly non-existent though, as far as i'm aware. there would be many ways to start another trial into similar matters.

there "may" be investigative reason, i really don't know. they rushed this decision though instead of taking the time for a quality investigation in the house.
i was really expecting them to push this off and blame the GoP for failing to remove a criminal. (not that criminality actually applied here)

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Dec 18 2019 11:23pm)

Now that is unexpected. I'm not sure what to make of this move.

Is it about optics, about them being able to say "Trump was impeached" without Trump being able to retort "I was acquitted"?
Is it about them being concerned about the dirt a Republican-led investigation in the Senate could cover up?
Is it about concern that a Republican-controlled process in the Senate might sway public opinion by simply reframing the events, even if nothing new is revealed?
Is it about concern that the impeachment hearings in the Senate might suck the oxygen out of their primaries?
Is it about holding back a tractical weapon that can be used to distract the news cycle whenever they need it?

Overall, none of these explanations outweighs the potential benefits to Democrats if they send impeachment to the Senate - namely that they force blue state Republican senators up for reelection in 2020 (Collins, Gardner) to take a difficult vote which might be toxic for them either way. And also that they might well be able to break away at least one or two Republican senators (Pierre Delecto says hi). There is even a chance to get to over 50 votes for conviction, which would be a huge symbolic victory for Democrats even if they still fall well short of the 67 needed for actual removal.

underline is possible
bold is undeniable

This post was edited by tagged4nothing on Dec 18 2019 10:26pm

Ghot

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#152

Dec 18 2019 10:25pm

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Dec 18 2019 11:23pm)

Now that is unexpected. I'm not sure what to make of this move.

Is it about optics, about them being able to say "Trump was impeached" without Trump being able to retort "I was acquitted"?
Is it about them being concerned about the dirt a Republican-led investigation in the Senate could cover up?
Is it about concern that a Republican-controlled process in the Senate might sway public opinion by simply reframing the events, even if nothing new is revealed?
Is it about concern that the impeachment hearings in the Senate might suck the oxygen out of their primaries?
Is it about holding back a tractical weapon that can be used to distract the news cycle whenever they need it?

Overall, none of these explanations outweighs the potential benefits to Democrats if they send the impeachment to the Senate - namely that they force blue state Republican senators up for reelection in 2020 (Collins, Gardner) to take a difficult vote which might be toxic for them either way. And also that they might well be able to break away at least one or two Republican senators (Pierre Delecto says hi). There is even a chance to get to over 50 votes in favor of impeachment, which would be a huge symbolic victory for Democrats even if they still fall well short of the 67 needed for removal.

Poll worthy.

/e I just think the Dems think that if they have an excuse to have more hearings... they might... just might start to sway the public. Optics over substance.

/ee Look at the BS today.. The debate over which to vote for. There was zero reason for that.

The Dems can do interviews etc., but they get far more coverage (ability to sway voters) with hearings. MAYBE they will say... we need to have more hearings ( a lie ofc) so as to give ALL the info to the Senate. In hearings the House (Dems) can capture the media for 10-12 hours at a stretch, and they can literally control everything the public sees and hears. Once the Senate has this...it's over.

If I was the GOP... I think I'd insist it moves on to the Senate. They can say: You're right, no one is above the law, including the House. The president, like anyone else has the right to a speedy trial... etc.

This post was edited by Ghot on Dec 18 2019 10:47pm

Black XistenZ

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#153

Dec 18 2019 10:56pm

Quote (Ghot @ 19 Dec 2019 05:25)

But their attempts at exploiting these hearings for political gain have clearly gone nowhere?

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/impeachment-polls/?ex_cid=rrpromo

When the details of the Ukraine scandal broke, public opinion on impeaching Trump moved substantially. But since then, since well before the House hearings even began, there was no further sustained movement of the polls. They are literally where they began in early October.

I agree with tagged4nothing here, imho, this is about tactical distraction. In particular, extending this investigation beyond the actual vote on impeachment allows the Dems to keep drowning the upcoming news cycles with an "orange man bad"-storyline and prevent his recent successes* as well as the IG report from getting the attention they deserve.

*USMCA, trade deal with China, record jobs numbers, getting funding for his space force, paid family leave for federal employees, the migration cooperation with mexico and central american governments working and causing apprehension numbers to go down, improving battleground state head to head polls against his potential democratic foes, etc.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Dec 18 2019 10:57pm

excellence

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#154

Dec 18 2019 11:07pm

Quote (Goomshill @ 18 Dec 2019 22:53)

Nancy Pelosi is now indicating publicly that she will not send the articles of impeachment to the senate, delaying indefinitely.
its unclear if she plans to hold back the impeachment articles permanently, or whether she will release them at a later date
this allows her to postpone a senate trial as long as she wants, or make sure it never occurs.
This could last up until congress's session ends and the new congress is seated

the 2020 campaign for the (D)s is confirmed: how dare you entertain voting for an impeached politician running for President

Reset

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#155

Dec 18 2019 11:27pm

Quote (excellence @ 19 Dec 2019 18:07)

the 2020 campaign for the (D)s is confirmed: how dare you entertain voting for an impeached politician running for President

well they know all the candidates they are putting forward don't really offer anything of value so their only hope is to attack trump directly (even though this failed last time lmao)

Meanwhile

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#156

Dec 18 2019 11:28pm

The over-simplification is real here, posting 1 picture as answer or linking polls - which are biased these days by some Emerson & Rasmusen well know failures -, talking about a federal loan economy saying it's better than ever ....

Not as good as a blow-job impeachment for sure, while scholars are vastly agree US president did a impeachable crime. The guy divided and weakened his country like no one before, please elect him again i want to watch the fatality.

Black XistenZ

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#157

Dec 18 2019 11:31pm

Quote (Saucisson6000 @ 19 Dec 2019 06:28)

Meanwhile, in France, the massive, country-wide strikes against President Macron's big pension reform are still ongoing.

fender

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#158

Dec 19 2019 02:42am

Quote (Black XistenZ @ 19 Dec 2019 06:31)

Meanwhile, in France, the massive, country-wide strikes against President Macron's big pension reform are still ongoing.

what does france have to do with this? oh right, nothing, it's just a pathetic deflection attempt...

Plaguefear

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#159

Dec 19 2019 03:44am

Why wont republicans impeach trump?
Conservatives believe in carrying all babies to full term.

Goomshill

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#160

Dec 19 2019 04:09am

So a few observations:

Impeachment has shook out worse than expected for democrats. More defections from their side, no republicans off their line, an actual party flip from Van Drew, no vulnerable democrats able to abstain, polling miserably.
Trump played the strategy well by leaning into the punches and holding a rally at the same time, but then chalked up another of his unambiguously bad unforced error moments with Dingell- add it to the list with the UK muslim video tweet and swipes at McCain and other shit we've already forgotten about. But at least this time Trump seemed to realize he crossed the line and tried to walk it back and prevaricate
No way Pelosi can actually score a win long term by delaying impeachment indefinitely. McConnell isnt without procedural options.
John Lewis somehow gave his canned speech about MLK in an impeachment hearing. (????)

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