because they might say soemthing good now and then.

but you cant just do everything they say, you have to match it with what they dont do.

This post was edited by Ylem122 on Oct 18 2013 08:41am

sorry, but what you are saying makes no sense. there is no need to reiterate every single thing that you want to keep. especially not when you make blanket statements that everything should be kept. such as above. as well as the sermon on the mount, "17“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

in the face of blanket statements that the law should be kept there is no need to reiterate each of the laws.

there is every need to, this is a new covenant for all man, everything that is important is in it.

where exactly does moses refer to this 613 as commandments?

This post was edited by Ylem122 on Oct 18 2013 08:49am

"do what they say, not what they do."

doesnt seem like theres any limitation on doing what they say.

where exactly does moses refer to these 613 as commandments?



where exactly does moses refer to this 613 as commandments?

This post was edited by Ylem122 on Oct 18 2013 08:49am

so what? a new convenant doesnt necessitate restating everything that you want in it. it is enough to say the old laws still stand.

im not sure exactly what youre asking here.

/when does god pass thse down to moses, as he did the 10 commandments?

read it through, yeah, only see those first 10 as the commandments, well not 10 but up until the people told moses to speak for god.

your going to need some proof jesus was talking about more than that.

This post was edited by Ylem122 on Oct 18 2013 09:00am

actually, im not sure on exact chronology, but:

the ten commandments were received by the entire nation, not just moses. the first two they heard directly from God, the rest they heard through moses. this all happened at mt sinai.

moses received the rest of rest of the first four books (genesis, exodus, leviticus, numbers) directly word for word from God. deuteronomy was written as a divinely inspired prophecy by moses, but not necessarily word for word dictated by God. not sure exactly when he received what, presumably some was before sinai, some was after. also given to moses by God wasl interpretations of the textual laws which were not written down but transmitted orally. while not mentioned specifically, this oral law is alluded to in deuteronomy 12 which states that you should kill your flocks for food "as i have commanded you" but nowhere in the written law is there any commandment about how to do that.

ive already brought two proofs that jesus's followers kept all the commandments, what more do you need? nonetheless, there are more, which ive already mentioned in this thread, but ill restate them here.

evidence that the initial followers of jesus followed the commandments: acts 5:27-39. the apostles are brought before the sandhedrin and many want to kill them. gamliel says to be wary of this, and to just leave them alone, because if their designs are of human origin they will fail, as theadus, and if not they are fighting against god. if they were not following the commandments, gamliel would not have said that there were any potential the he is the messiah, as the jewish belief was not (and isnt) that the messiah will abolish the commandments. if the followers of jesus werent following the commandments, he would have agreed to put them to death as heretics. gamliel basically said 'lets wait and see'. if the followers of jesus werent following the commandments, he wouldnt need to wait. he could say right then that they were heretics.


from the sermon on the mount, a strong support of the commandments and the pharisees: "17“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."


another proof that jesus observed the commandments. i said previously "someone comes to jesus and kisses the 'fringes' of his garments. fringes, in the context of judaism, refers to a fulfillment of the commandment to bind fringes on the corners of your garments. that jesus was wearing them shows that he accepted and followed not only all 613 commandments of the written law, but also the oral traditions of judaism. the saducces, who rejected the oral tradition, didnt wear their fringes, they hung them on the wall."

the quote for this is luke 8:44. i made a mistake, she touches it, not kisses it, but there it is. while some translations translate it as border, many translate it as fringe or tassel. according to http://biblehub.com/luke/8-44.htm an xian commentator says as well that that refers to the fringes worn by observant jews.



additionally, let me quote you something that YOU said previously: "i think its absurd to expect jesus to have gone about and commented on every single aspect of the Jewish law at the time, he makes blanket statements that teach a way to look at he laws and interpret them." (post #62)

so he made blanket statements that the law should be kept. what more do you need?



you seem to want to say that when jesus said keep the commandments, he meant only the ten commandments. this does not fit contextually. jesus was a jew and was speaking to jews. when jews say commandments, they are referring to all 613. if they want to refer specifically to the ten commandments, they specify the ten commandments.

This post was edited by ReturnFormer on Oct 18 2013 09:16am