You can link any scripture you want. I have given you PLENTY of scripture that deals with baptism and how it relates with salvation. Feel free to look back in this thread and read over them again. You can try and dismiss scripture all you want, but I won't. Have fun reading 95% of your bible!

you have fun reading the 2%. I will read 100% in context.

The WATER was added by your faulty translator to push your false doctrine.

Notice that none of these versions use the word water in them. It's added purposely to yours to push a particular belief.

King James Version:


1Pe 3:21 ¶ The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

American Standard Version:

1Pe 3:21 which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ; (ASV)

Bible in Basic english:

1Pe 3:21 ¶ And baptism, of which this is an image, now gives you salvation, not by washing clean the flesh, but by making you free from the sense of sin before God, through the coming again of Jesus Christ from the dead; (BBE)

Darby:

1Pe 3:21 ¶ which figure also now saves you, [even] baptism, not a putting away of [the] filth of flesh, but [the] demand as before God of a good conscience, by [the] resurrection of Jesus Christ, (DBY)

Modern King James version

1Pe 3:21 which figure now also saves us, baptism; not a putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ; (MKJV)

Montgomery's New Testiment.

1Pe 3:21 Baptism, the counterpart of that, now saves you (not the washing off of the filth of the flesh, but the prayer for a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. (MNT)

New King James version


1Pe 3:21 ¶ There is also an antitype which now saves us--baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, (NKJV)



1Pe 3:21 This is a symbol of baptism, which now saves you--not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, (WEB)

Youngs literal translation

1Pe 3:21 ¶ also to which an antitype doth now save us--baptism, (not a putting away of the filth of flesh, but the question of a good conscience in regard to God,) through the rising again of Jesus Christ, (YLT)



The word water doesn't appear anywhere in the original text.

1Pe 3:21 ¶ The like figure <antitupos> whereunto <hos> even baptism <baptisma> doth <sozo> also <kai> now <nun> save <sozo> us <hemas> (not <ou> the putting away <apothesis> of the filth <rhupos> of the flesh <sarx>, but <alla> the answer <eperotema> of a good <agathos> conscience <suneidesis> toward <eis> God <theos>,) by <dia> the resurrection <anastasis> of Jesus <Iesous> Christ <Christos>:

This post was edited by xfrodobagginsx on Mar 22 2012 08:12pm

Chris, You are adding works to salvation. The bible says that it is NOT of works lest anyone should boast.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

This post was edited by xfrodobagginsx on Mar 22 2012 08:14pm

James 2:14-16

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

For real I'm done now. I have given you countless scripture to back my doctrine. You are just not accepting them. You are not going to convince me, nor I you. I see the scripture as a whole and do not use it to attack itself. You obviously do.

This post was edited by Dune1 on Mar 22 2012 08:24pm

I accept those scriptures and have been explaining them, along with the rest of the 98% of the bible that you ignore. They aren't saying what you are asserting. I am showing you verses that tell you that baptism doesn't save, that salvation is without works, but you ignore them. Why don't you explain them for me if they aren't saying what I think they are saying. Because they are saying it and they don't fit your doctrine. You want to only focus on what you think fits your doctrine.

So what this verse is saying is that IF you have genuine faith, THEN you will have works. It's not saying that the works save, it's saying that the FAITH results in works. So, it's the FAITH that saves. The result is the works.

Ro 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness

Ro 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

This post was edited by xfrodobagginsx on Mar 24 2012 01:03pm

I use it to show that you err in your doctrine. Since the bible cannot contradict it's self, obviously, you are interpreting it incorrectly. I have explained those scriptures to you. All you can think about is water baptism.

I have explained them to you as well and all you are saying is "BAPTISM DOESN'T ALWAYS MEAN WATER blah blah..". I realize it doesn't. The scriptures I gave you.. in context.. it does. You are coming off extremely infallible. I have given you just as many scriptures as you have give me, and you refute them with your 95% and 98% numbers. Which is just stupid. You are openly saying that you only take into consideration 95% or 98% of the bible when it comes to salvation. Just because I do not agree with you does not mean my doctrine is in error, or I am mis-interpreting it. Again, you sound infallible. You have given ZERO explanation to any of the baptism verses I have linked in this topic other than "it doesn't always mean water". PROVE to me the verses I linked does not involve water. You can't. You are interpreting it to fit your doctrine.

If baptism were not essential it would not be listed in the great commission, or the sermon on Pentecost. Not to mention every conversion story dealing with baptism. It is ALWAYS present in a conversion account. Wonder why? Wonder why Jesus said do it. Wonder why Peter said to do it for the FORGIVENESS of your sins and the gift of the HOLY SPIRIT. (which doesn't come until after baptism)

You are correct when you say scripture cannot contradict itself. Which is why I read the bible 100%. You are finding contradictions because you only read 95% (in your own admission). Having FAITH requires action. It is ALWAYS an action word. Believing , repenting, and baptism are ALL actions. You can slice it anyway you want, but in the end.. the bible is clear on the matter.

Two ways to get to heaven when you die:

1) follow the yellow brick road

2) use GPS, or mapquest

So, it's true that you cannot explain any of the verses that I have provided for you. All you have done is focus on any verse that you percieve to fit your doctrine. Any explanation to the contray will be disgaurded by you.

The scriptures that you gave me do NOT say that Baptism saves. I proved to you how your translation intentionally included the word water there to push a specific belief, the belief that water baptism saves people. It doesn't. Jesus said to be Baptized as a first act of obedience to Him for a believer. It's a public profession of faith in Christ Jesus. It's an Ordinance, like communion. Do you believe that taking communion saves too? It's not part of your salvation. It is a work. Works don't save us, faith in Christ Jesus alone through His Grace (unearned favor) does. I never said that I only read 95% of the bible. That's very false. I said that 95% of the bible verses that talk about Baptism don't even mention Baptism. Then you tried to turn it around and say that I didn't believe in that 5%. I certainly do, but they aren't saying what you wish they were saying. If they were, it would have been clear in the other 95% of scriptures. It would have said something like For by grace are ye saved through faith and baptismand that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God not of works...wait a minute...baptism is a work...I guess that's why it doesn't include that...

Faith is a belief, it is not an action. It RESULTS in actions. The action isn't the faith.


Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.


It's about believing God. That's why Cain's sacrifice wasn't accepted and abel's was. Cains was works based. Abels was faith based. Your idea of salvation is works based.


Yes, the bible is very clear on it. That's why it says that we are saved unto or (TO DO) good works, NOT because of good works.

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. {ordained: or, prepared}


Here are two bible dictionaries regarding faith. To have faith is to believe. That's why the bible says Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.

The biblical meaning of believe is to place your faith in something. It's not the same as believing that something merely exists, but to believe on or place your faith in them.




STRONG'S GREEK DICTIONARY


4102. pistiv pistis, pis'-tis
Search for 4102 in KJV


from 3982; persuasion, i.e. credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly, constancy in such profession; by extension, the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself:--assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.

EASTON'S BIBLE DICTIONARY

Faith

Faith is in general the persuasion of the mind that a certain statement is true (Php 1:27; 2Th 2:13). Its primary idea is trust. A thing is true, and therefore worthy of trust. It admits of many degrees up to full assurance of faith, in accordance with the evidence on which it rests.

Faith is the result of teaching (Ro 10:14-17). Knowledge is an essential element in all faith, and is sometimes spoken of as an equivalent to faith (Joh 10:38; 1Jo 2:3). Yet the two are distinguished in this respect, that faith includes in it assent, which is an act of the will in addition to the act of the understanding. Assent to the truth is of the essence of faith, and the ultimate ground on which our assent to any revealed truth rests is the veracity of God.

Historical faith is the apprehension of and assent to certain statements which are regarded as mere facts of history.

Temporary faith is that state of mind which is awakened in men (e.g., Felix) by the exhibition of the truth and by the influence of religious sympathy, or by what is sometimes styled the common operation of the Holy Spirit.

Saving faith is so called because it has eternal life inseparably connected with it. It cannot be better defined than in the words of the Assembly's Shorter Catechism: "Faith in Jesus Christ is a saving grace, whereby we receive and rest upon him alone for salvation, as he is offered to us in the gospel."

The object of saving faith is the whole revealed Word of God. Faith accepts and believes it as the very truth most sure. But the special act of faith which unites to Christ has as its object the person and the work of the Lord Jesus Christ (Joh 7:38; Ac 16:31). This is the specific act of faith by which a sinner is justified before God (Ro 3:22,25; Ga 2:16; Php 3:9; Joh 3:16-36; Ac 10:43; 16:31). In this act of faith the believer appropriates and rests on Christ alone as Mediator in all his offices.

This assent to or belief in the truth received upon the divine testimony has always associated with it a deep sense of sin, a distinct view of Christ, a consenting will, and a loving heart, together with a reliance on, a trusting in, or resting in Christ. It is that state of mind in which a poor sinner, conscious of his sin, flees from his guilty self to Christ his Saviour, and rolls over the burden of all his sins on him. It consists chiefly, not in the assent given to the testimony of God in his Word, but in embracing with fiducial reliance and trust the one and only Saviour whom God reveals. This trust and reliance is of the essence of faith. By faith the believer directly and immediately appropriates Christ as his own. Faith in its direct act makes Christ ours. It is not a work which God graciously accepts instead of perfect obedience, but is only the hand by which we take hold of the person and work of our Redeemer as the only ground of our salvation.

Saving faith is a moral act, as it proceeds from a renewed will, and a renewed will is necessary to believing assent to the truth of God (1Co 2:14; 2Co 4:4). Faith, therefore, has its seat in the moral part of our nature fully as much as in the intellectual. The mind must first be enlightened by divine teaching (Joh 6:44; Ac 13:48; 2Co 4:6; Eph 1:17,18) before it can discern the things of the Spirit.

Faith is necessary to our salvation (Mr 16:16), not because there is any merit in it, but simply because it is the sinner's taking the place assigned him by God, his falling in with what God is doing.

The warrant or ground of faith is the divine testimony, not the reasonableness of what God says, but the simple fact that he says it. Faith rests immediately on, "Thus saith the Lord." But in order to this faith the veracity, sincerity, and truth of God must be owned and appreciated, together with his unchangeableness. God's word encourages and emboldens the sinner personally to transact with Christ as God's gift, to close with him, embrace him, give himself to Christ, and take Christ as his. That word comes with power, for it is the word of God who has revealed himself in his works, and especially in the cross. God is to be believed for his word's sake, but also for his name's sake.

Faith in Christ secures for the believer freedom from condemnation, or justification before God; a participation in the life that is in Christ, the divine life (Joh 14:19; Ro 6:4-10; Eph 4:15,16, etc.); "peace with God" (Ro 5:1); and sanctification (Ac 26:18; Ga 5:6; Ac 15:9).

All who thus believe in Christ will certainly be saved (Joh 6:37,40; 10:27,28; Ro 8:1).

The faith=the gospel (Ac 6:7; Ro 1:5; Ga 1:23; 1Ti 3:9; Jude 1:3).

This post was edited by xfrodobagginsx on Mar 24 2012 04:42pm