Greece's debt to GDP ratio surged above 175% when the debt crisis took off in 2011, from 109% in 2008:
https://tradingeconomics.com/greece/government-debt-to-gdp

So the rate at which their debt ballooned wsa dramatic and far higher than anything you're seeing in the US, France, etc.
Furthermore, they are very much an example for a country with a shitty, non-diversified economy.


So China holding less US debt is a bad sign, but SA holding a large chunk of US debt is also a bad sign?








Nope, definitely not. I've been of the opinion for many years that Turkey has become a trojan horse for NATO and the West, is acting openly antagonistic and has become a drag. Remember a couple of years ago when the US had to evacuate its nukes from Incirlik airbase because they were afraid that Erdogan might seize them? Remember how Turkish troops stood idly by watching the Kurds in Kobane get slaughtered by ISIS, blocking supplies to the Kurds while waving through supplies for ISIS? Remember how Erdogan has been ruthlessly blackmailing Europe with the migrant deal ever since Merkel handed him this leverage? Or how Erdogan has fully drunk the Hamas cool aid since Oct 7?

There's plenty of amazing people in Turkey, plenty of great culture to build on. But they're a clear minority to the Erdoganites. As long as Turkey remains on the course it has been on for the past 15 years, we're better off without them. Literally the only reason they're still in NATO is that they control the Bosporus.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Sep 6 2024 12:35pm

I think the Turks have always been opportunistic in kind of an annoying manner and in reality they don't hold any loyalties to any partners. They're selfish and dream of some proto-Ottoman empire. No one actually likes them. We tolerate them because we need them in the ME and flanking Russia. Russia tolerates them because they need to go through the Bosporus and is key to evade sanctions. Arabs don't really like them. Europeans don't like them. None of their neighbors to the west or east like them. Who actually likes them...?

Obviously referring to the nation, not individuals which i'm sure there are plenty of wonderful people.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Sep 6 2024 12:48pm

Greece is a great example of how a debt crisis can spiral out of control. Funny you're trying to make it less severe than it actually was. It nearly spelled doom for the entire EU

Has Greece paid that money back yet?


@bold --> I pointed out that both are BRICS members holding large chunks of US debt and one (China) is already dumping US treasuries. SA could be next

The girls are very pretty !




I remember they label them as PIGS.

Portugal , Italy , Greece and Spain.

This post was edited by Hamsterbaby on Sep 6 2024 02:21pm

The Turks compensate the lack of love from everyone else by having a REALLY high opinion of themselves




The situation in Greece itself only spiraled out of control because the underlying economy was so small and vulnerable, and because their debt was on track to double within just 4 years.
The whole thing was only such a crisis for the EU because it laid bare a structural weakness of eurozone, namely that you had a currency union without a fiscal or social union. That was the real crux, not the situation in Greece itself - as evidenced by the fact that the rest of the eurozone countries have dragged them along ever since while the financial markets don't bat an eye anymore.


BRICS decoupling from US treasuries and the US dollar could become an issue for America, yes. But I stand by my opinion that this decoupling will only go so far. The Euros are America's staunchest ally and their economy isn't doing too hot, so the BRICS countries clearly don't want to invest in EUR instead. I highly doubt that the Indians or Saudis want to invest too much into CNY. Brazil is kinda infatuated with China atm, but we'll see how long that will last. I expect a similar story as in Africa, where some early adopters of the Chinese investment programs are disillusioned while others are still chomping at the bit for the Chinese bucks.

Regarding the Saudis specifically: there has lately been some rapprochement between them and their big rival Iran, but I really don't see this rivalry disappearing in full. Hence, the Saudis will still want to be in the good graces of the US, so that they continue to get their arms sales and protection.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Sep 6 2024 05:01pm

No one likes them, they openly practiced slavery and still would if we didn't stop them

What *should* happen is for the West and Russia to team up and liberate Anatolia, divide the land between the West & Russia (the East), and restore Constantinople as the centre of West-East trade & cultural exchange

This is the path to peace in the ME, drive the Islamists off the Mediterranean in whole, Egypt will play ball

This post was edited by El1te on Sep 6 2024 05:04pm

At the very least they have no business being in Cyprus. It's a shame the west allowed for them to seize that land and drive the Greeks out.

You're trying real hard to make this sound less severe than it actually is. An huge bailout operation was needed not only for Greece but also for Italy Spain and Portugal and later the banking system particularly of those countries. But other countries struggle too look at France for example

All these posts you've made it sound like the "superior diversified EU" has no financial issues while the opposite is true and the EU central bank keeps piling up debt from all kind of rescue packages and all those years of necessary quantitative easing (lmao).

Finances of Western countries are a joke. You keep telling others how good you are while no EU country has their budget in order, decades ago people in the EU were at least properly informed regarding their government's budget and told that you cannot spend money that you don't have.




The US needs to keep selling their treasuries, they can't even stop overspending because of all the interest payments and the costs of their their inflated military and foreign policy. Let alone pay all of that money back.

There are only so many places to store large amounts of wealth, and the United States has a captive market. The Europeans, South Koreans, and Japanese are dependent on the Americans for their defense; collectively they represent over half of the annual economic production on the planet. Besides, the vast majority of US debt is held domestically, and that's the definition of a captive market. The American economy isn't going away anytime soon.

The point I made is that both China and SA are BRICS members, both own large chunks of US debt and China is already dumping US treasuries.