Quote (Qord @ Jun 11 2023 09:29am)

Disingenuous argument, there's a clear process for retaining documents for something like a library. And that process includes the steps required to declassify a document. Even if we ignore that, section 1d is pretty clear about part of what he allegedly did wrong. Do I think he needs to get in trouble for keeping documents? No. I don't think that's the problem. The problem is everything that came after that, especially the allegations of not trying them when asked to, the allegations of sharing them, and the alleged obstruction.

Quote (Qord @ Jun 11 2023 09:35am)

NARA put out a statement on Friday that disagrees

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jun 11 2023 07:42am)

A slam dunk case with regard to Trump, he dun fucked up. Nonetheless, it's still a blatant double standard how the FBI (and the media) aren't going harder after Biden for letting similarly classified documents lie around for half a decade in his Delaware garage (which is much less secured than Mar-a-Lago... heck, his fuckup son had access to this garage and his stuff occasionally ends up in Jersey pawn shops, only to be retrieved by their political enemies.)

The only (extremely tortured) argument I could see Trump making is that he just boasted about the classified documents in front of his guests, but that he didn't actually show the files to them - and that a mere audio tape is, by its nature, insufficient to prove otherwise. But it seems like Meadows flipped, so if Trump tries this defense, he might also be on the hook for perjury.

Quote (Hamsterbaby @ Jun 11 2023 03:51am)

I think it is well known that Goom is objectively one of the most intelligent Pard poster.

Quote (Redeemed777 @ Jun 11 2023 06:02am)

Actually if you knew about how the law works it’s based on precedent the same that let bill go over his personal recordings he used for an auto biography which held classified information HE TOOK with him after his presidency considered PERSONAL ITEMS, same as with former President Trump with regards to these documents. Once again the espionage act does not and CAN NOT apply to a President and or former President based on executive powers.

The Presidential records act records act not the espionage act determines how the records are controlled. I could type more but you still wouldn’t get it, I can tell

https://www.judicialwatch.org/judicial-watch-clinton-sock-drawer-audio-tape-case-exonerates-pres-trump/

Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Jun 11 2023 12:10pm)

https://casetext.com/case/judicial-watch-inc-v-natl-archives-records-admin

This case turns on NARA's ability to classify things as "presidential records", which is not something that applies to already existent classified documents. Trump is not being accused of handling presidential records.

Quote (Redeemed777 @ Jun 11 2023 11:15am)

Yes he is… these documents are declassified already. Period stop. A grand jury hidden of proof is the lowest bar to be used to get an indictment. Bill clinton had classified information on the recordings and a judge ruled those are his personal records

Quote

(2) The term "Presidential records" means documentary materials, or any reasonably segregable portion thereof, created or received by the President, the President’s immediate staff, or a unit or individual of the Executive Office of the President whose function is to advise or assist the President, in the course of conducting activities which relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President. Such term--

(A) includes any documentary materials relating to the political activities of the President or members of the President’s staff, but only if such activities relate to or have a direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President; but

(B) does not include any documentary materials that are (i) official records of an agency (as defined in section 552(e) of title 5, United States Code; (ii) personal records; (iii) stocks of publications and stationery; or (iv) extra copies of documents produced only for convenience of reference, when such copies are clearly so identified.

Quote (Goomshill @ Jun 11 2023 10:00am)

Besides all the former presidents who went through records to separate out personal materials years later (like Obama), the court precedent pretty explicitly strips NARA of any power whatsoever when it comes to classification of documents. They have zero authority to say what Trump classified or didn't. Not to mention the bit where Trump's transition team was accusing NARA of refusing to provide archival assistance at the time- and accused them of being overtly partisan- so it rings particularly hollow for them to make that claim now. And its a schizophrenic line to take in this case, because NARA's claim is based on the PRA, and if the PRA trumps the espionage act then the DoJ's case is invalid.

https://i.imgur.com/Jxi8wkr.png

Whether he calls them personal records is irrelevant, he doesn't have to tell NARA what he considers classified or unclassified, they have no enforceable powers, they can't contradict him on classification.

Quote (Hamsterbaby @ Jun 11 2023 10:04am)

Bro no offense mate.
Look at your guild
And look at the thread you made.

https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=101252454&f=119

Whether or not ^Goomshill is pathologically dishonest, we can read his stuff and if I disagree with him on certain points I can have a debate with him.
And I am sure there are times we can agree to disagree.

Quote (Redeemed777 @ Jun 11 2023 08:56am)

Please read the powers of the executive, he doesn’t need to go through ANY ZERO NONE process in order to declassify anything the President IS a the executive branch no if ands or buts about it. Once again the presidential records act plus being the president (former or current) permits these powers to declassify and keep. As per the precedent set by prior presidents and the Clinton tapes really made that clear

Quote (Hamsterbaby @ Jun 11 2023 03:51am)

I think it is well known that Goom is objectively one of the most intelligent Pard poster.